Dear Nina and friends,

thanks, Nina. I actually have something like this:

"Iti h'eta.m vijaanaahi pa.thamo so paraabhavo."
Thus you may indeed learn this: pa.thamo so paraabhavo.

As you said, without knowing the context, it is hard to translate the
phrase "pa.thamo so paraabhavo".

pa.thamo so = he who is first
paraabhavo = ruin, defeat, disgrace

There is also a relational issue, if I follow your reasoning, the
sentence would become:

"Iti h'eta.m vijaanaahi pa.thamo so paraabhavo."
Thus you may indeed learn this first: so paraabhavo.

However, I think 'pa.thamo' applies to 'so', as in, "pa.thamo so".

Another one I have just thought of is this:

"Iti h'eta.m vijaanaahi pa.thamo so paraabhavo."
Thus, may you, he who is first (and) defeat, learn this indeed.

What do you think?

metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

It is hard if we do not know the context.

> > 10. "Iti h'eta.m vijaanaahi pa.thamo so paraabhavo."
> > thus / indeed-this / may (you) learn / first / he / ruin

N: This defeat is the first that you should understand.