--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hodge" <s.hodge@...> wrote:

> Dear Robert,
> > > Mind is a concept that also doesn't help us- cittas and

cetasikas

> > are nama (mentality), they do not depend on 'brain'.

+++++++++++++>
Stephen: if you say

> cittas and cetasikas do not depend upon the brain, then how do

they are

> independently of matter (rupa), especially with regards to

perception. What

> is the manner of the interface ? I think the Theravadan position

on the

> antarabhava question implies that there is an intimate connection

and

> co-dependency of naama and ruupa.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Stephen,
In the kamaloka pancakhandha(five aggregates) existence such as
humans and animals then naama depends on ruupa as you say. Eye
consciousness (cakkhu-vinnana) depends on the very subtle rupa
inside the center of the eye and arises there. Or for body
consciousness it can arise anywhere on the body (except nails and
hair) : so right now if you can feel a sensation around the foot
then consciousness arises at that area for an infinitely short
time.
According to the Theravada for mind-door processes the rupa is
hadaya-vatthu , the heart base, and this is a very subtle rupa
arising dependent on blood in the heart.

++++++++++++++++++

> > The texts are clear that many moments of nama/citta/mentality

arise

> > and pass away in a split second - but whether it is exactly
> > 10,000,000,000,000 or a factor of 10 or more either way is
> > unimportant.

++++++++++++++++++++
Stpehen: The texts may be clear but can they be validated
empirically ? It does also

> interest me that this, to me, obsession with citta moments is an

exclusively

> Theravadan concern not found in the Abhidharmas of other Buddhist

schools,

> exhaustive though they are.

+++++++++++++++++++
I think looking for empirical science to first prove the Buddha's
teaching before gaining saddha (confidence) is going the wrong way.
A Buddha's knowledge is far beyond any concepts of western science
and such matters can only be known by direct insight.
Anicca (impermanence ) is a crucial part of the Buddha's Dhamma.
In the Anguttara Nikaya AN i.10 :
" bhikkhus, there is no phenomenon that comes and goes so
quickly as mind. It is not easy to find a simile to show how quickly
mind
comes and goes."
RobertK