Mahalo nui loa (thank you very much) Big Mike! Your very informed and well
articulated response was very much appreciated. After I sent in my first
posting, I scrolled down a bit and read that post wonderful written post
from Nina? that you attached. I immediately thought "whoops" - I should
have waited until I read more! :-).
I don't have much to contribute - Just some elementary questions :-). And
probably ones that are rehashes of stuff already covered.
Aloha pumehana,
Rodney
At 06:02 AM 9/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
>Hi Rodney,
>
>And welcome--
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: ryhorikawa <ryhorikawa@...>
>To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 8:55 PM
>Subject: [Pali] Re: chanting
>
>
> > Aloha Mai Kakou Folks - Sorry for jumping into this in medias
> > res. I'm brand new to this listserv :-)
>
>Very glad to meet you--sorry I'm ignorant of Hawaiian!
>
> > On this topic, wouldn't the fact that 1) the suttas were composed
> > in metrical form (which unfortunately is lost in translation and 2)
> > the suttas were -in the beginning- not "read" but orally
> > transmitted by bhanakas indicate that the Dharma was - to some
> > extent -"chanted" or "sung" ?
>
>Yes, this seems quite clear to me, too, from the vinaya (not to mention the
>existence of the word 'bhaa.naka'). chanting was clearly approved but
>singing disapproved. One of my favorite characters from the vinaya, Dabba
>the Mallian (a seven-year-old arahanta), is assigning viharas:
>
>"...For those monks who knew the Suttantas he assigned lodgings in the same
>place, thinking: "These will be able to chant over the Suttantas to one
>another..."*
>
>Culavagga IV, p. 99 (PTS)
>
>This following was posted recently but is maybe pertinent enough to repost:
>
>Bhikkhus, there are these five dangers when Dhamma is chanted with a long,
>singing sound:
>
>He is pleased with himself regarding that sound, (= pride)
>
>Others are pleased regarding that sound (they have regard for it but not for
>Dhamma)
>
>Householders look down upon him (as music is for those who enjoy
>sense-pleasures)
>
>While trying for accuracy of sound his concentration is broken, (he neglects
>the meaning of what he is chanting)
>
>People coming after fall into views (by emulation) ("saying: Our teachers
>and preceptors sang it thus" [Commentary] -- a source of both pride and
>quarreling among later generations of Buddhists).
>
>-- Vinaya Pitaka, ii. 108 (from ATI)
>
>Looking forward to your correspondence.
>
>mike
>
>*Very interestingly, to me, this continues further on: "...For those monks
>who were talkers on inferior matters and who were athletic he assigned
>lodgings at the same place, thinking: "These reverend ones will live
>according to their pleasure..."
>
>
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Rodney Yasushi Horikawa
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Community Building Coordinator
Campus Community Partnerships Team
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