Hi Alexander,
----- Original Message -----
From: Alexander Stolbov
To: nostratic@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nostratic] Re: Origins of I-E

Hi Gerry,
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nostratic] Re: Origins of I-E


[Alexander]
Actually every hypothesis suggests a zone for searching the IE homeland
depending on the features which are accepted as the early IE ones. The
question is : "Where is the most probable location of people who meet the
following demands: ... ?" Put instead of dots your ideas about the people
who spoke PreIE and its daughter languages and you'll get the answer. Your
own answer.
GRW:  QUESTION:  How are you defining the "people" you are searching for?  Are you defining them by morphological/physiological traits or "mental traits" that can be determined by the products found in the archaeological record (art work, animal husbandry, farming, clothing etc.)?  IOW, when you assess "migration" is it of a "pure" morphological group?  Hope this is clear; it might not be.  Let me try again:  are you telling me to select a list of criteria such as: nomadic, no potters wheel, fancy leatherworking for horse trappings, elaborate felt appliques, presence of calendrics, etc. and then add a "pin" to the Euroasian map?
Alexander:
Yes, however, one also needs to add an idea, when PIE could exist (usually Late Neolithic-Eneolithic-Early Bronze periods are accepted) and how its daughter branches development principally could bring the situation to the present state of affairs.

 Gerry:
Yes, the concept of "time" is VERY important.  Yet even when that is factored in, trying to decide which group spoke what in say the Bronze Age is still terribly problematic.
 
GRW:  [with wrinkled forehead] Huh?  Do you live in Florida? 
 
Alexander:
Not, I visited St.Petersburg,Florida only once. 
 
Gerry:
Me too.  An interesting place to visit.
 
GRW:
 Seriously,  I thought St. Petersburg was the intellectual capital of Russia.  From wence Vadim Masson hails.  Did St. Petersburg successfully secede from Russia?
 
Alexander:
Not yet.
 
Gerry:
Whew.  I thought I had missed the event what with everything happening so quickly these days.
 
GRW:  Valery Alexeev always claimed that all early groups were genetically mixed. Is this what you are claiming as well?
 
Alexander:
Well, any natural group of organisms (plants, mushrooms, animals) is genetically mixed. However new genes (or variants of old genes) arise regularly. Principally they could be used as markers, like ringing of birds is used by ornithologists. If we could obtain genetic information from bone remains it would be a great source of information concerning populations migrations. Unfortunately now we can get genetic information only from living people which pictures the present day situation. In some cases (when populations are well isolated with sea, high mountains, deserts etc.) this picture is rather conservative and can reflect ancient processes of populations movements and mixings. But not in steppes. The picture for the period of our interest (about 9000-5000 years ago) has been disturbed and practically erased many times there.  A
lexander 
 
Gerry:
Yes, new genes arise regularly but IMO language really isn't a genetic factor.  Languages are controlled by memes which are behaviorally and environmentally determined.  Agree?  Disagree?  Actually genetic information (DNA) can only tell us about physical (morphological) traits but actually says nothing about the language(s) we speak, or dialects.  Even in the steppes, the human element needs to be factored into behaviors of the nomads.
 
Gerry
 
 


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