So my final question in this endless Norse saga will be this... the latter part of the phrase:
ek skal unna thér engu verr enn mér
I need to identify which part of the runic inscription represents precisely this part of the
phrase.
The link to the images is here:
http://skaldic.arts.usyd.edu.au/db.php?table=mss&id=15094
But it extremely difficult to discern the actual runic inscription itself, much less extract the
part that represents the latter part of the phrase. Does anyone here have access to better
images? I believe it's an inscription in Elder Futhark, but it's extremely difficult to tell. Any
help... deeply appreciated.
Wade
--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "WMajor" <wm@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you all so very much for weighing in -- so could I then address
> the truncated phrase:
>
> "ek skal unna thér engu verr enn mér"
>
> which apparently means, "I will love you no less than myself."
>
> Would it be fair to say that this is an expression of the highest form
> of love? Given that it was carved into a piece of wood, I'd like to
> believe that the intent was one of selfless devotion rather than
> self-absorbed arrogance.
>
> What I'm trying to get to is the gist of the poem - would you
> interpret this poem as being written in humility by someone profoundly
> dedicated to their true love, or is there a tinge of arrogance to it,
> as in, "You should be so lucky to be with someone like me!"
>
> The literal English translation doesn't convey this nuance, and I'm
> trying to get to what idiomatic tone is lost in the translation.
>
> Huge thanks, again.
>
> Wade
>
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patti (Wilson)"
> <originalpatricia@> wrote:
> >
> > May I contribute LN ? "you cannot love any one very much unless you
> have but
> > a little love for yourself"
> > Quoted from the Notebooks of Patricia W.Wilson -
> > It is a pet theory of mine - "to forgive the wrongs of others to you
> - also
> > forgive your own mis-deeds - those for which you feel unable to forgive
> > yourself" I write stuff in a "Commonplace Book" - it can be useful
> > Kveðja
> > Patricia
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: llama_nom
> > Date: 05/06/2008 14:39:32
> > To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [norse_course] Re: Need help with runic translation! Please!
> >
> > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "WMajor" <wm@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello to all -- I'm new to the group here.
> >
> > Hi Wade, and welcome to Norse Course!
> >
> > > I'm trying to get an accurate translation on a
> > > poem from one of the Bergen runes.
> > >
> > > The complete phrase, as translated into Old Norse, is this:
> >
> > Well, it is in Old Norse to start with, so what follows is rather a
> > transliteration from the runic spelling into normalised Old Norse, as
> > written in our Latin alphabet. Also the root vowel in the verb 'reyna'
> > has been modified to conform to an Icelandic form of Old Norse,
> > whereas the vowel in the original runic inscription reflects the
> > Norwegian dialect of Old Norse.
> >
> > > "kann ek segja thér, sem thú mant reyna af mér, at ek skal unna thér
> > engu verr enn mér."
> > >
> > > The alleged English translation is this:
> > >
> > > "I can say to you, as you will experience with me, that I will love
> > you no less than myself."
> > >
> > > This seems to me to simply be a word-for-word translation, rather
> > than one that
> > > translates the meaning of the poem. Can anyone here give me a more
> > accurate translation
> > > in modern English that preserves the essence of what the poet is
> > really saying? I can't
> > > imagine the poem is saying, "I love myself so much, hang out with me
> > long enough and I'll
> > > end up loving you the same."
> >
> > Weirdly, I didn't get this impression from the English translation
> > above. As far as I can see, it's just a matter of emphasis. Obviously
> > it's not likely that the words were composed with the intention of
> > emphasising how much "I love myself", so it follows that in the
> > context it was written in, it would be taken as a given that, as a
> > general rule, "I love myself more than I love other people". That
> > natural liking for oneself is then used as a standard by which to
> > measure "my love for thee".
> >
> > But if that assumption (that generally "I love myself more than I love
> > other people") doesn't work any more, then I suppose it would seem
> > unnatural, meaningless or even insulting to say "I love you as much as
> > I love myself". Maybe that's the problem you're having? In our modern
> > world, we're too familiar with the idea that people might not love
> > themselves, or might love others more, or at least boast of loving
> > others more in songs...
> >
> > Or does the problem lie in 'engu verr en mér'? A lot of Old Norse
> > expressions rely on understatement, so "no less than myself" needn't
> > imply a grudging offer of love!
> >
> > Or is it the time scale that seems odd to you? You paraphrase it as
> > "...hang out with me long enough and I'll end up loving you the same".
> > But it's not saying "I'll end up loving you..." so much as "you'll
> > find out that I love you no less than I love myself", "you'll learn by
> > experience that I love you", "I'll prove to you that I love you",
> > "you'll discover/encounter/meet with this quality in me, that I love
> > you", "you'll see for yourself that it's so".
> >
> > > And if the phrase were simply shortened to:
> > >
> > > "ek skal unna thér engu verr enn mér"
> > >
> > > would this have a different meaning on its own, without the intro?
> > Or would it literally be:
> > >
> > > "I will love you no less than myself."
> >
> > I would say yes, it's pretty much the same. All the preamble adds is:
> > "I can tell you this" and "you will find this to be the case".
> >
> >
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> >
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