Me too! Although I obviously question its authenticity, I still am inclined to
use this rite, and now the question of pronunciation has been quite nicely
cleared up.
Thanks!
Larry
Wulf, Tom (wulft) wrote:
> Thanks for the detailed analysis! Really appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Tom Wulf
> Assoc. Prof. of Information Technology
> College of Applied Science, University of Cincinnati
> 2220 Victory Parkway ML 0103
> Cincinnati, OH 45206-2839
> Tom.Wulf@...
> http://homepages.uc.edu/~wulft
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of llama_nom
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 12:25 PM
> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [norse_course] Re: pronunciation of some simple words
>
>
> Hamarr í norðri helga vé þetta ok hald vörð!
>
> The big question is, when?
>
> In Viking times and into the 12th century, probably something like this:
>
> All words stressed on the first syllable.
>
> 'þ' like 'th' in English 'think'.
> 'ð' like 'th' in English 'father'.
>
> Look out for the acute accent over some vowels; this shows that they
> were pronounced long. Vowels with no acute accent over them were
> pronounced short.
>
> 'a' like the vowel in Northern British English 'man'.
>
> 'r' as in Spanish (strongly trilled/rolled initially and when double
> 'rr', otherwise a weaker trill or tap).
>
> 'í' like the 'ee' in English 'meet'.
>
> 'o' the vowel in French 'eau', a short version of the 'o' in German
> 'oder' = the first element of the diphthong in 'pole' in many sorts of
> English including American General Pronunciation.
>
> 'i' in final unstressed position (as in 'norðri') like the 'i' in
> English 'lid'.
>
> 'e' in 'helga' = the 'e' in English 'hell'.
>
> And the 'l' in 'helga' would be like the 'll' in English 'hell' too,
> but the 'l' in 'hald' was like the 'l' at the beginning of English
> words = the 'l' in German 'halt' as opposed to the 'l' in English
> 'hold'. It might be hard to hear the difference because the two
> sounds aren't in phonemic opposition in English [
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonemic ].
>
> 'g' in 'helga' would be like 'g' in Spanish 'algo' (like English hard
> 'g' EXCEPT that the tongue doesn't quite make contact with the roof
> of the mouth).
>
> 'v' = English 'w' in 'way'.
>
> 'é' like the vowel of German 'weh' = a long version of the first
> element of the diphthong in 'way' in many sorts of English including
> American General Pronunciation and British English Received Pronunciation.
>
> 'e' in þetta' a short version of 'é'.
>
> 'tt' the doubling of the letter shows that you should pause slightly
> longer before releasing the 't' than you would if there was just one
> of them. In other words, doubled consonants have the same function in
> Old Norse as in Italian.
>
> 'ö' like 'o' in German 'Gott', a short version of the vowel in British
> English 'awe', a bit like the vowel in British English 'one'. This
> letter should really be spelt with a hook under the 'o', but because
> most computer fonts don't have "hooked o", we usually use the umlaut
> (two dots) instead. The corresponding letter in Modern Icelandic is
> spelt in this way with the umlaut.
> _________________________________________________________
>
> In the 13th century, 'v' became more like English 'v', and the
> difference between the 'e' in 'helga' and that in 'þetta' disappeared
> in Icelandic; 'ö' developed lip-rounding, becoming like the vowel in
> German 'götter'. In Modern Icelandic, 'o' in 'norðri' has the sound
> that the "hooked o" probably had in Viking times. In modern
> pronunciation, the first 'a' in 'hamarr' has been lengthened, and the
> final 'r' dropped; the 'g' is 'helga' has become [k], like the
> unaspirated 'c' in English 'scar'; both examples of 'l' in this
> sentence are now pronounced as the 'l' in English 'like'; there is a
> puff of air before the 'tt' in 'þetta'; and the 'é' in 'vé' is now
> more like English 'yeah' (still a long vowel, but more open and with a
> glide like English 'y' before it). 'ok' has become 'og' with a long
> 'o' (as in Modern Icelandic 'norðri') and 'g' (as in Old Norse
> 'helga'). Academics in the English-speaking world usually use Modern
> Icelandic pronunciation for Old Norse.
> ___________________________________________________________
>
> Hmm, I probably included much too much detail there; oh well...
>
> LN
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com]
>>On Behalf Of wildhare13
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 9:27 PM
>>To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: [norse_course] pronunciation of some simple words
>>
>>Not sure if you all are familiar with the hammer rite..
>>
>>I don't have pronunciation marks... but the words are
>>
>>"Hamarr i nordhri helga ve thetta ok hald vordh!"
>>
>>meaning "hammer in the North hallow and hold this holy-stead".
>>
>>My main questions are how to pronounce "ve thetta" and "vordh"
>>
>>my friend uses "vay theeeta"... I have read pronunciation guides in
>>the back of several books which would indicate "vay thetta" (rhyme
>>with forget-a).... and should "vordh" rhyme with "or" or "are"... and
>>the dh is somewhere between a th and a z... is the "r" trilled a bit?
>>
>>I am sorry my message is scattered.. I am not very scholarly... but I
>>am to perform this rite soon in the company of others, and I would
>>like to say it correctly. I disagree with using a long e especially
>>in thetta.
>>
>>thanks and it's nice to have these forums..
>
>
>
>
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