Hi there,

Is it not wonderful to face newborn?

How come babies "und'ir" in Iceland?

Some say still that it is both wonderful and strange?
"Under and strange" are as "Day and Night".
Nothing archaic about that. Period.
See what is UndarLegt or comparable to Und (-ir suffix may be
omitted at least according to skaldic tradition.)
(Slegt) F:und > Fyndið or Funny-Honey >H:öf:und. f:ind-ið

Thanks Blanc

Stunning: unn>und>unt or Stöngin?
F:an >Swan is the son of a King.

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@...> wrote:
> > Nú tók Svanur til orða og geispaði mjög: "Nú sækja að fylgjur
> MM & HP: "At that moment Svan had a fit of yawning and announced,
> "Osvif's fetches are attacking us." The first part more literally:
> "Now S. started speaking and yawned much..."
> `fylgjur' (sg. fylgja) are supernatural "accompaniers" (according
> the usual etymology), spirits or fetches, not the men who have
come to
> help Osvífr, who are referred to later as his `förunautar'.
> to Rudolf Simek's Dictionary of Northern Mythology, trans. Angela
> Hall, `fylgjur' are "The souls of people but separate from their
> bodies. The `fylgjur' of Old Norse literature are only seen in
> or else by people capable of seeing them with supernatural powers.
> They appear in the shapes of women and animals, but are a kind of
> doppelgänger of a person and can act or else appear instead of him
> an ominous sign." Apparently the ability to see one's own `fylgja'
> might also betoken one's impending death: `þú munt vera feigr maðr
> muntu hafa sét fylgju þína.' Comparing and contrasting them with
> Christian idea of the soul, he writes that they "leave a person at
> death and become independent beings" and "can transfer to
relations so
> that a certain relationship of the `fylgjur' to the family must be
> assumed." He also compares them to the Roman `genii' and Christian
> `guardian angels'. "They are more than these, as they are bound
by a
> belief in destiny, and they stand in association to the personified
> luck of a person, the `hamingja'. The word `fylgja' is thought to
> related to the ON verb `fylgja' "follow", and as such would
> mean "following spirit", "wraith", but a connexion with
`fulga' "skin,
> cover; caul" and `fylgja' "afterbirth" cannot be totally
> As protective supernatural females, their role seems similar to
> of the `dísir' (often translated "goddesses"), but I don't know to
> what extent these concepts overlap. Here is a collection of Old
> quotes dealing with `fylgjur' and related entities [
> http://www.hi.is/~terry/ntfylgjur.htm ].
> According to the school's edition notes: Svanur fær aðsókn. Það er
> alþekkt trú á Íslandi og Noregi að fornu og nýju að menn geispi
eða þá
> syfji þegar sótt er að þeim, sbr. t.d. Finnboga sögu ramma (669) og
> Þorsteins þátt uxafóts (2312). "S. gets a premonition in the form
> an attack of yawning or feeling abnormally drowsy (aðsókn). It is
> well known belief in Iceland and Norway, in both ancient and modern
> times, that people will yawn or become drowsy when they're going to
> get a visit, compare for example Finnboga saga ramma (669) and
> Þorsteins saga uxafóts (2312)." Another example, the `völva'
> (seeress) in Hrólfs saga kraka yawns a lot when she starts to
> the princes with seid-magic. Apparently the belief is that the
> yawning is caused by these fylgjur (fetches / guardian spirits),
> either sent deliberately, or just going on ahead of the approaching
> person. There are a few explanations here [
> http://lexis.hi.is/cgi-bin/ritmal/leitord.cgi?
> ], including this one: "eru það nefndar aðsóknir, þegar einhver
> finna á sér ónot, óró, máttleysi, eða svefnsókn fyrir gestakomu."
> "That is called `aðsóknir' (pl.) when someone feels unease or
> or has an attack of sleepiness before a visit."
> > Svanur tók geitskinn eitt og veifði yfir höfuð sér
> MM & HP: "Svan took a goatskin and swung it round his head."
> Schools edition: hér er um að ræða galdrabragð og kemur það fyrir í
> talshættinum "veifa (vefja) héðni um höfuð e-m" (sbr. Eyrbyggju
558 og
> Grettlu 1054). VEIFÐI: veifaði. "A magical technique is being
> described here. It also occurs in the expression `swing (wrap) a
> round someone's head', cf. Eybyggja saga 558 and Grettis saga
> Zoega defines that idiom "to hoodwink one". I wonder if this is
> related in any way to the traditional saga method of killing
> which involved putting a skin bag over their head. I had assumed
> was so that the executioners wouldn't have to look them in the eye
> avoid remorse or being cursed, which I guess psychologically might
> amount to the same thing). A sort of hoisting them with their own
> petard? Or just coincidence?
> > og verði skrípi
> Could also be plural, as MM & HP have translated. Likewise
> They have "phantoms...weird marvels". The older spelling `undr' is
> just used here because it's verse. Patricia's "weird stuff" is
> the right for neutrality I think, although it might diminish it to
> sound too colloquial? MM & HP translate a later
occurrence "uncanny
> events", which I quite like. Marvels and wonders, to me, have
> something of a positive connotation, as if it might be something
> amazingly beautiful or admirable in some way, a sense of awe, or
> it has a connotation of fairground / circus advertising, or just
> surprise in the set phrase `it's a wonder' = "it's surprising
> How do other people feel? The word `undr' covers all sorts of
> strange occurrences in sagas, including unpleasant and sinister
> phenomena, supernatural killings and so forth. Just the impression
> I've got from my limited reading... It sounds a little archaic to
> to use `marvel' or `wonder' in this broader sense for anything
> strange, bad things included. Not that archaic is necessarily out
> place here; might be a matter of style.
> > á hálsinn
> Schools edition: Bjarnarfjarðarháls.
> > og gengu í fen ofan sjálfir
> Patricia, `sjálfir' is masculine nominative plural, and I think
> to the men themselves (as opposed to their horses, which may also
> sinking, but I think this is just emphasising that even the men
> sinking). `fen' is neuter accusative (plural?) here, so if the
> adjective had been referring to that it would have been `sjálf',
of if
> singular `sjálft'. For the word order, compare `Þeir gengu út
> "They both went out.
> > svo að þeim hélt við meiðingar
> "so that they were on the verge of [sustaining] unjuries"
> MM & HP "so that they were in danger of injury"
> (distinguished from other senses of `halda við' by accusative)
> > Þeir töpuðu af sér vopnunum.
> "They lost their weapons."
> > "Ef eg fyndi hesta mína og vopn þá mundi eg aftur hverfa."
> "If I found (MM & HP: could find) my horses and weapons, then I
> turn back", plural.
> > Þá eggjuðu margir á að enn skyldi við leita um atreiðina og var
> gert og urðu þeim þegar hin sömu undur.
> "Then many urged that they should still make the attempt (go on
> the attempt) at riding there, and that's what they did, but they
> instantly met with the same weird phenomena." MM & HP: "uncanny
> events". Neuter nominative plural, the same as the nominative
> singular, but note the plural verb `urðu' and inflections on the
> article and weak adjective, `hin sömu'. School's edition notes:
> ATREIÐ: það að ríða að e-m "riding to someone."
> Patricia: "And this happened three times (some folk never learn)"
> But it's a tale. You have to do things three times in tales. It's
> the rule!
> > Þá mælti Ósvífur: "Þó að förin sé eigi góð þá skal þó nú aftur
> hverfa. Nú skulum vér gera ráð vort í annan stað og hefi eg það
> í hug mér að fara og finna Höskuld föður Hallgerðar og beiða hann
> sonarbóta því að þar er sæmdar von sem nóg er til."
> Schools edition: ÞAR ER SÆMDAR VON ER NÓG ER TIL: helst er að leita
> sæmdar þar sem gnægðir eru fyrir. "The best place to look for
> is where there is an abundance." MM & HP: "Finally Osvif said, `We
> have had no success on this expedition, but even so we must turn
> We must resort to other plans. What I have chiefly in mind is to
> to se Hoskuld and ask him for compensation for my son. One may
> for honour where honour abounds.'" See also the proverbs
> Then Osvif said, "Though our trip has led to no good, we must turn
> back. We'll try another plan, and what I have in mind now is to go
> Hoskuld to ask him for compensation for my son – we can expect to
> honour where there is plenty of it." [
> http://www.usask.ca/english/icelanders/proverbs_BNS.html ].
> > og er nú ekki fyrr frá að segja en þeir koma á Höskuldsstaði.
> "and there's nothing to tell of now till they come to Hoskuld's
> `fyrr en' "before"
> (-staði, accusative plural of masculine i-stem staðr.)
> This is a sort of set phrase or formula, very commonly used for
> describing journeys in saga: nothing significant happened, there's
> nothing to report till they reach their destination.
> > Þar var þá fyrir með Höskuldi Hrútur bróðir hans.
> "There with Hoskuld then was his brother Hrut."
> In this context, `fyrir' just means "there", "present".
> > og er það eigi allra manna að sækja hann þangað.
> MM & HP: "and it is not everyone who can reach him there."
> More understatement...