Hi there again,

--- llama_nom <600cell@...> wrote:

> This is a good point: "middle voice" is potentially
> ambiguous because
> it could refer to form (verbs with the reflexive
> suffix) or function
> (verbs where the agent is also the recipient), this
> function being
> just one among several uses of verbs with this
> suffix. By the same
> reasoning "passive" would be equally ambiguous if we
> were to use that
> for the form itself, as well as one of its
> functions.
> > I recommend those not wanting to sound like newbie
> to avoid using the
> > term "Middle Voice" to substitute the Icelandic
> spelling
> > "MiðMynd".
> > Use instead separately depending of the case terms
> > like "reflexive" and "passive".
> It may not be ideal, but the term "middle voice" has
> traditionally
> been used for this verb form, e.g. in one of the
> standard textbooks,
> Gordon's Introduction to Old Norse. Stefán
> Einarsson (1945) uses
> "middle voice" for 'miðmynd' (Icelandic Grammar).
> Rory McTurk (2004)
> uses "middle voice", "middle voice endings", "middle
> voice forms", in
> The Icelandic Language, his translation of Stefán
> Karlsson's Tungan
> (first published 1989). "Medio-passive" is used in
> Old Norse Online.
> Zoega uses "reflexive". Jan Terje Faarlund calls
> it "the reflexive
> verb form" in Old Norse Syntax (2004), but also
> tentatively uses the
> term "medio-passive" to refer in a general way to
> its range of
> functions. So you won't seem like a "newbie" when
> the experts can't
> decide what's best to call it!

Those If Experts and methodical use "Middle Voice" as
the meaning of "Middle Voice" is defined in "British".

Stefán Einarson as you write, I reckon explains this
Icelandic version of "Middle Voice" for his "British"
speaking readers,
else I find him less methodical and less expert.

I reckon they as other experts use defined terms for
the concepts they work with, and good decision makers.

Icelanders take "Miðmynd" for verbs forms suffixed
with -ST and in modern Icelandic all of them I know
give passive result.
Ég skeri: Active conditionel.
Ég skerist: Passive Conditionel.

Ég sker mig: Active reflexive.[ "Ég" is nominative.]
Ég skerst:
Passive absolute which lasts beginning now or in the
Ég er skorinn. Active verb "vera" with past
participle: one has been Cut, One has scare or the cut
is recent; not there is no usage of glyphs of time as
it is not relevant in the image given by skorinn.

Thanks Uoden.

"Barn" in English is Boy. Your Ideas of Expertise ?
"Barn'ið" grew up to be a woman.
Do you comprehend the Sn. II skillfully ?
I thought I were the only one with the necessary
reading abilities. Engi Leita is? Vöxtur Líkneskja?

> I am tempted to start calling it the "reflexive
> form" of the verb,
> although one possible disadvantage with that is that
> a verb can also
> be made reflexive with a freestanding reflexive
> pronoun.
> Luckily, a lot of the time, there will be no
> ambiguity whichever term
> is used, since it will be clear from the context
> whether the author is
> writing about the verb-form or how it's used. Where
> not, you can
> specify, e.g. "middle voice FORM". But I agree, it
> would be clearer
> and more logical to have distinct terms for the form
> and its various
> functions:
> active "I dress you"
> passive "I am dressed by you"
> middle "I dress (myself)"
> reciprocal "we dress each other"

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