Llama

Thanks for this. A great help which I have bookmarked
for future use. I am now attempting Chapter 24 of the
Fagarskinna (The Death of Olafr Tryggvason) in Michael
Barnes excellent intro to Old Norse reader.

Thanks, Andy
--- llama_nom <600cell@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Andy,
>
> Gordon has "wound-grouse" in the glossary, but
> simplifies this
> to "eagle", as you say, in the notes. This is a
> kenning of a kind
> much used by Old Norse poets. The name of any bird
> is combined with
> a warlike attribute (such as "wound" or "blood" or
> "battle" or the
> name of Odin or one of the valkyries) to mean raven,
> or eagle.
> According to convention, a drink or any other liquid
> mentioned in
> connection with such a bird is to be understood to
> mean blood.
>
> Ravens as bird:
> http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/kennings/rbird.html
> Blood as drink:
> http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/kennings/drink.html
>
> For all your kenning needs: [
> http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/ ]. If
> you klick on kennings, then "analytical glossary",
> you'll find 'ben-
> þiþurr' "wound partridge = raven". Browsing through
> the entries you
> can see how the same few ideas are expressed is many
> different
> ways. I don't know if it's always possible to say
> for sure whether
> a raven or an eagle is meant in all such kennings
> (raven seems more
> common, as the archetypal carrion eating bird), but
> maybe that's not
> such a big difference as the bird is almost always
> aluded to in its
> role as an eater of carrion.
>
> Another anomaly I just noticed, Gordon in the notes
> translates 'und'
> = undir "under". But in the glossary 11/80 is
> translated "behind".
> I don't know why that is. Zoega just has under +
> acc. with motion.
> But if they're standing behind/under their shields,
> they wouldn't be
> going under them, so that's a bit puzzling. As far
> as I know 'ráða'
> is being used here just as a meaningless poetic
> auxiliary like
> the "did" in Gordon's translation. Anyone know more
> about this?
>
> Llama Nom
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Higgins
> <asthiggins@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hey All
> >
> > I have been working my way through E.V. Gordon's
> Intro
> > to Old Norse (after learning the basics of Grammer
> > through the groups excellent website and the
> Michael
> > Barnes books). I am in the middle of the
> Fostbroetra
> > Saga (pages 126-127) and have a question about an
> > animal mentoned in the poem that Thormod recites
> to
> > the women in the barley barn about the Battle at
> > Stikalstad and Olfr's fall (a rainy battle field I
> > visted this Monday). In the poem on page 127
> (line
> > 83) Thromod says
> >
> > Hringr ok Dagr at thingi
> > redu their und rauthar
> > randir prutt at standa
> > fekk benthithurr blakkan
> > bjor - doglingar fjorir
> >
> > Which I traslate as:
> >
> > Hringr and Dingr at the meeting of sharp swords
> > did stand proudly beside shields of blood (? - red
> > shields)
> > the ??? received the/his black beer (?) - the
> four
> > valiant princes!
> >
> > The ??? is the question - according to Zoega a
> > thithurr is a wood-grouse, capercailye - but
> Gordon's
> > translation is "eagle" which seems to make more
> sense!
> > Any thoughts here - and is "black beer" use
> anywhere
> > else - perhaps as a kenning for victory, revenge -
> > over the four valiant princes.
> >
> > Thanks, Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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