Greetings Patricia,
 
I've been using Zoega, that is a good one :) I haven't seen any others online.
 
thank you much for the kind words and I will do my best to learn it :)
 
In Service,
Ísólfr


From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patricia
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:16 PM
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: Miscellanea Section L Subsection (iii)/Translation

Saell Ísólfr
You have a good background for learning Old Norse, with all the languages you speak or have a certain knowledge of, there are elements related through the passage of time to Old Norse, I would hardly think you would find it difficult
 
 
http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/
this url gives you access to the home page, but for the actual spoken  stuff, I hope there is Llama Nom or Haukurth may know of perhaps tapes or CD's, it's good to see more people joining in you are welcome
Kveðja
Patricia
 
you will want a good dictionary I wonder if you let Haukurth know which language you like best from which to learn Old Norse, he could recommend one, I like Zoega best - Old Norse and English
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 6:35 PM
Subject: RE: [norse_course] Re: Miscellanea Section L Subsection (iii)/Translation

Greetings,
 
a stupid question that you all have probably been asked many times... How hard is it learning Old Norse.. I'm from Danmark, I now live in the US, I'm part of the SCA here in the US, I'm a 10th century Viking, great times :) however, I'm trying to get into it with heart and soul, so therefor I would like to learn Old Norse or at least SOME Old Norse :) I was looking over all the lessons you all have around here... they're all great, however, what I learn alot from too is hearing words spoken, so now my question is, is there anywhere I can find words spoken with their meanings... a bunch of soundfiles are fine :) I'm determined to learn this... current I speak, ofcourse Danish, English, then I know German, some Swedish and Norwegian. not sure if this helps any :)
 
thank you much for taking the time to read this email.
 
In Service,
Ísólfr


From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patricia
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 11:22 AM
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: Miscellanea Section L Subsection (iii)/Translation

I am glad to see that LN, because I am really pleased to have got most of the Kennings, Kennings are worth researching IMO, I am no poet, but the use of Kennings and allusion are both fascinating in their way
Kveðja
Patricia
The idea of the bane/sorrow of snakes as a kenning for winter,  is now a favorite of mine
----- Original Message -----
From: llama_nom
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 5:33 PM
Subject: [norse_course] Re: Miscellanea Section L Subsection (iii)/Translation


Well, I butted in earlier because I thought this was a bit of a
tangled one and not really fair to unleash on beginners, but
actually you all did impressively well in riddling out the
meanings.  In case anyone doesn't have access to Gordon's
translation, here it is: "I have laid a loop on the heath beyond
Jordan--the wise lady will remember this during the serpent's sorrow
[lit. path-thong's]; but I think it seems far to all stay-at-home's
to go thither; blood fell warm on the wide plain."


> 'Ek hefi lagða lykkju leiðar þvengs of heiði
> I have placed a coil of lace of (the) way over (the) heath.


'leiðar þvengs' "lace/thong of the way" [snake] would seem to be
parenthetical, not connected with this sentence but rather
with 'sút'.  The 'sút þvengs leiðar' "sorrow of the thong of the
road" = "serpent's sorrow".  The skalds often spliced their
sentences like this, and the confusion caused by the fact that he's
already talking about tying knots may well be deliberate!

The kenning might seem bizarre but is actually a conventional way of
referring to seasons in skaldic verse, according to how amenable the
weather is to snakes.  Snorri says that winter can be called 'bani
orma' "death/bane/killer of snakes", and summer 'líkn
ormanna' "comfort/relief/mercy of the snakes".  He cites Ormr
Steinþórsson's kenning 'orms tregi' "snake's grief" for winter.

Did the poets care about snakes?  I think it was just a good excuse
for gratuitous snake-kennings.  For example, Sörlastikki, in Sörla
þáttr, has 'dalreyðar miskunnar' "dale-rorqual's [=land-fish =
serpent's] mercies", that is to say: the season which is kind to the
snake, i.e. summer.  Similarly Egill Skallagrímsson called
summer 'dalmiskunn fiska'.  Here the elements of the kenning are
swapped, but the intended meaning is 'miskunn dalfiska' "mercy of
[i.e. for] dale-fishes", summer.




> Snotr minnisk þess svanni
> A wise woman (will) be reminded of that


Or simply "remember that" (his tying of the knots).



> sút), fyr Jórðán útan;
> (with) sorrow [dat sg?], beyond Jordan;



See above: sorrow nothing to do with the wise woman, just part of
the kenning for winter.  Yes, I think dat.sg.



> en hykk at þó þykki
> but I think that nevertheless (it) seems


The (dative) subject of 'þykki' is 'heimdrögum öllum' "all stay-at-
homes" in the final line: I think it seems to them; I think [that]
they think [that] it [is] a long way to walk/go there [to where I
tied the knots, on the heath beyond the River Jordan].


> þangat langt at ganga
> a long way to walk from there,


'þangat' "to there, thither" (þann veg at), rather than "from there,
thence", which would be 'þaðan'.  Slip of the keyboard, no doubt.



> (blóð fell varmt á víðan
> blood fell warm on (the) wide
> völl) heimdrögum öllum
> plain, for all those who yearn for [are drawn to] home



I'm not even sure there needs to be an excuse to mention blood in
Viking poetry.  Violence was done, it almost goes without saying. 
Like the woman, it might refer to a particular event, or it might be
just part of the convention.  It seems like a parenthetical
interjection, as Gordon punctuates it, in the middle of the sentence
about it seeming a long way to stay-at-homes.

How was that?  Hope I haven't confused things even more.

LN




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