"Comments below. Hopefully the experts will step in and help out if I´m off the mark." said Alan

 

I have an Idea here Alan and it is that I have become thoroughly confused, best I step right back and go carefully though this reply of yours, for I anticipate finding you to be correct, I realise what has happened indeed, I have become "driven" by this wish for another language and the ability to read the sagas in the original form, and with this the fun and joy have gone out of the exercise, I am not giving up on this, but I shall have to relax the attitude I have that to make a mistake makes me useless, I regret that this has happened, but I know why (it goes back a long way, too far, and the problem has no place in this study).

I believe a more lighthearted approach to my studies will result in learning more of my chosen subject, I much appreciate your comments, and hope to see results from them, in my ability to study better

Kveðja

Patricia

----- Original Message -----
From: AThompson
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:57 AM
Subject: RE: [norse_course] Auðun section 21/feedback Patricia

Sæl Patricia

 

Comments below. Hopefully the experts will step in and help out if I´m off the mark.

 

Kveðja

Alan

 

-----Original Message-----
From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patricia
Sent: Wednesday, 25 May 2005 3:20 AM
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Auðun section 21/feedback Patricia

 

Many thanks Alan, but I have some queries of my own if you please I am going to do copy and paste directly from your comments and see how I can sort this

 

King-the [‘-inn’, the def article, is not in the text  =  yes I see that and I thought with the nominative ? konungr I should have put 'the' in I stand/sit corrected

 

I guess all I’m trying to point out is something that relates to a topic has been discussed previously: in Icelandic, a noun is often used without the definite article when the definite article would normally be used in English, ie in this text ‘konungr’ is often used when we would say ‘the king’; however in the case in question ‘Sveinn konungr’ can simply be translated without the need for a definite article, ie as ‘King Svein’ rather than ‘the King Svein.’

 

"this [(in) that (way), dat sg neut of sá ]   these [that, dat sg of sá]   where it says sá is that a typo because  þa seems to mean something but sá does not sppear to relate to þvi but þá does

 

Actually Barnes in his part one does give a choice of this that ot it, did I  choose wrongly or is Auðun demonstrating the simple fact 'that'  the King accepted the animal was an honour in itself

 

I can only argue from what I, as a learner myself, know. Not having access to Barnes’ text I cannot argue against him. All I know is that ‘því’ is the dat sg of ‘þat’ which is neuter form of both the 3rd pers pronoun (hann, hon, þat) and the demonstrative pronoun/article (sá, sú, þat) (see pages 294-295 of Gordon), the latter being translated by Gordon and Zöega and my Modern Icelandic dictionary as ‘that (one), the(one)’ with not a hint of a ‘this’ to be seen. In each of these sources it is ‘sjá, þessi, þetta’ are rendered as ‘this (one)’ but also, occasionaly as ‘that (one)’, just to confuse the issue. Further, each of these source point to the extended use and meaning of ‘því’ (from the dat sg neut demonstrative prounoun) as both and adverb or a conjunction. Whenever I see ‘því’ as an adverb or a conjunction, I find it good to keep in mind its underly demonstrative meaning, thus

 

Conjunction: ‘því’ meaning ‘because’ is really ‘(for) that (reason)’

Adverb: ‘því’ meaning ‘therefore, for that reason’ (which both Zöega and my Modern Icelandic dictionary give; it is only Gordon which glosses ‘for this reason, because of this’ which I suspect is a bit loose, if you know what I mean.

 

So, in the cases you refer to above, I stand by my comments, not withstanding the fact that, it is equally possible to say, when you point at something you want to buy, ‘I want this one’ or ‘I want that one’ J

 

 

treasure[s, acc pl]   oh!! that s  I found it on the floor it fell off - a typo   BUT

"what did he in addition [is (there) still] more"     how is this erased please  for Barnes and Zoega and Gordon all give What for Hvat, and when I gave    in addidion for enn it was from Barnes Glossary

 where as Zoega gives still 

 

I´m not sure I can answer this completely. You are right that ‘hvat’ is ‘what’ but in this case I think it is behaving more as a preliminary word to indicate that what follows is a question, similar for example as when you might say: ‘What? You believe everything George Bush says?’ So in this case ‘What? Is there yet more?’ ie the question is about whether there ‘is’ something more, rather than whether the King ‘did’ anything more. I hope this makes sense.

 

if they all give what what's adrift     and  choose how I will  (oh there we are I could not get blue for the life of it

 

and  a reward [verb, infinitive] would he give [still] more Zoego has Launa as a noun - a reward and I took that  how wrong was I Ziega does not have it as a verb at all  how have I done wrong here   I found the word as given in Zoega  acceptable  when they have  similar spellings these nouns and verbs how can I be sure, because I'm not

 

Zöega has ‘laun’ (not ‘launa’) as a noun (neut pl), but I will answer this question by asking you a couple of other questions: if ‘launa’ is not the verb, then why have you found the need to insert a verb in your translation that doesn´t have a corresponding word in the text, ie ‘give’ ? and if ‘launa’ is the noun, what case is it?

 

K

Kveðja

Patricia Damn it, the machine likes flaming red today ho[pe you can help please Alan, bweforw I throw it out the window

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: AThompson

Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 9:01 AM

Subject: RE: [norse_course] Auðun section 21/feedback Patricia

 

Sael Patricia

 

Comments inserted as usual.

 

Kveðja

Alan

 

-----Original Message-----
From: norse_course@yahoogroups.com [mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patricia
Sent: Saturday, 21 May 2005 6:46 AM
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Auðun section 21

 

Saell Alan,

this was one of the best to do, I found myself reading it, then timidly going to the book (Zoega / Gordon) to check and finding myself right after all, said I'd take greater pains, didn't I

 

Þá spurði Haraldr konungr: 'Hverju launaði Sveinn konungr þér dýrit?'

Then asked (past - spyrja) Haraldr king-the "what/How rewarded (launaði- past) Sweinn King-the [‘-inn’, the def article, is not in the text]   to you(2.per dat) the animal (dyr + def art.)

Then King Harald asked "How did King Sweinn reward you for the Animal"

 

 Auðun svarar: 'Því, herra, at hann þá at mér.'

Auðun replies "this [(in) that (way), dat sg neut of sá ] lord  (at) [that]  he then [accepted, þá is past tense of þiggja] (at) of/from me (dat?)

He accepted this from me (i.e. the bear, which was the "this" to which he referred

 

Konungr sagði: 'Launat mynda ek þér því hafa. Hverju launaði hann enn?'

King-the (nom) reward[ed, past part]  would I (?subj [yes]) to thee this [that, as above] have how rewarded he in addition"

The King said "I would have rewarded thee thus, what more reward did he give.

 

 Auðun svarar: 'Gaf hann mér silfr til suðrgöngu.'

Auðun answers "Gave he to me silver for a pilgrimage"

Auðun said "He gave me money for a Pilgrimage"

 

Þá segir Haraldr konungr, 'Mörgum mönnum gefr Sveinn konungr silfr til suðrgöngu eða annarra hluta

Then says Harald King-the "To Many Men (Dat Pl) gives Sweinn the King the money [silver] for a pilgrimage or for other purpose[s (both annarra and hluta are gen pl)]

Then says King Harald "King Sweinn gives to many men the money for Pilgrimage or for other purposes

 

 þótt ekki fœri honum gørsimar. Hvat er enn fleira?'

Although none brought him treasure[s, acc pl]  "what did he in addition [is (there) still] more"

Even though none brought him treasure, "What else did he give you"

 

'Hann bauð mér', segir Auðun, 'at gørask skutilsveinn hans ok mikinn sóma til mín at leggja

He invited to me Says Auðun "to become (gøra+sk) cup-bearer to him and great honours [acc sg agreeing with mikinn] on me (1st per dat) placed/laid

He invited me says Auðun  to be his cup bearer and laid (preferred) great honours upon me

 

.' 'Vel var þat mælt', segir konungr, 'ok launa myndi hann enn fleira.'

Well was that said, Says the King  "and  a reward [verb, infinitive] would he give [still] more

"This was well done" Sas the King "did he give you any More"

 

Auðun sagði, 'Gaf hann mér knörr með farmi þeim er hingat er bezt varit í Nóreg.'

Auðun said  "gave he to me a ship/vessel, with Goods/Cargo these [that, dat sg of sá] to hither the best(from betri) value[d, past part] in Norway

Auðun said "he gave me a Ship with such a cargo as is prized in Norway

 

'Þat var stórmannligt', segir konungr, '

That was Munificient says the king    (it translates - in the manner of a grand man)

That was extremely generous said the King (prefer that)

 

en launat mynda ek þér því hafa

and [but] rewarded would I to thee (dat.Sg of þu) [(in) that (way), as above] have

I too would have rewarded you in this way

 

 Launaði hann því fleira?'

rewarded he thee [(in) that (way)] more

Did he give you anything else

 

I hope this is better Allan, I'm going nouns now out of the book and the verbs some later, but I think it is a bit better we have adjectives and pronouns next I believe

Kveðja

Patriicia

 

----- Original Message -----

From: AThompson

Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 10:53 AM

Subject: [norse_course] Auðun section 21

 

Sælir

 

Here is the next installment of Auðun. Lots of words that we have encountered already so this is mainly a revision exercise. Also lots of repetition so I have made the section slightly longer than normal

 

Kveðja

Alan

 

 

Þá spurði Haraldr konungr: 'Hverju launaði Sveinn konungr þér dýrit?' Auðun svarar: 'Því, herra, at hann þá at mér.' Konungr sagði: 'Launat mynda ek þér því hafa. Hverju launaði hann enn?' Auðun svarar: 'Gaf hann mér silfr til suðrgöngu.' Þá segir Haraldr konungr, 'Mörgum mönnum gefr Sveinn konungr silfr til suðrgöngu eða annarra hluta, þótt ekki fœri honum gørsimar. Hvat er enn fleira?' 'Hann bauð mér', segir Auðun, 'at gørask skutilsveinn hans ok mikinn sóma til mín at leggja.' 'Vel var þat mælt', segir konungr, 'ok launa myndi hann enn fleira.' Auðun sagði, 'Gaf hann mér knörr með farmi þeim er hingat er bezt varit í Nóreg.' 'Þat var stórmannligt', segir konungr, 'en launat mynda ek þér því hafa. Launaði hann því fleira?'

 


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