Re: English to Norse (sword names)

> Thanks a lot for your help, Llama! I must think of some

way to

> "beautify" these names as they seem kind of awkward to

the average

> reader, though.

Xeon, one way might be to change some letters to reflect the
pronunciation better with English spelling, e.g. turn "j" into "i"
or "y".

> First mentioned in Ch.62 is Dragvandil (slicer) a gift from

Arinbjorn who had it from Egil's Brother Thorolf, Who had the sword
from Grim his father, who had been given it by Egil's Uncle Thorolf,
who had received it from Grim hairycheeks, whose father was Ketil
Haeng.

Hi Patricia,

http://www.hi.is/~eybjorn/ugm/kennings/beta.html

There's a kenning for sword listed here _rjo'ðvendill randa_ "red
wand of shields" -- derived from vöndr "staff". Drag- looks like
it's related to draga "draw, pull, drag, etc.", although the normal
verb for to "draw a sword" I think is _bregða_. But maybe it refers
to the pull of the arm as it sweeps the sword through the air and
whatever else it may be swept through.

In the online versions of Ketils saga hængs, and Gri'ms saga
loðinkinna, the sword which Egil later owns is named as
Dragvendill. But this second element appears in various forms with
and without mutation: Ondill, Vandill, Vendill.

> I bared blue Dragvandill,
> Who bit not the buckler...

That's a nicely alliterating translation. Draupnir is alluded to in
the saga, in Egil's paean to Arinbjorn, ch.78 (80 in the online
version at Netu'tga'fan), in the compound kenning:

ofdolgr Draupnis niðja = "generous man" (according to the Lex.
Poeticum).

dolg = strife (ofdolg, I haven't found a definition of, but
presumably "extreme strife")

niðr "kinsman", in this case "descendent" according to Lex. Poet.

"Draupnir´s offspring" = rings, all the new rings it drips off
itself.

A lot of kennings for kings and lords revolve around the idea
of "wasting, spoiling, destroying, scattering, hating, etc." rings
or wealth, in other words they're very generous to their friends and
followers, and poets hint hint.

Llama Nom

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia"
<originalpatricia@...> wrote:

> Saell Fernando
> First mentioned in Ch.62 is Dragvandil (slicer) a gift from

> But chapter 68 we have a verse'
>
> I bared blue Dragvandill,
> Who bit not the buckler,
> Atli the Short so blunted
> All edge by his spells.
> Straining my strength I grappled,
> Staggered the wordy foeman;
> My tooth I bade bite him,
> Best of swords at need.'
> this refers to Egil using (yes) his teeth to kill Atli, now they

called Egil Berserker, but I'm inclined to see more of Ulvhednar in
this act

> As for Draupnir, I found it in some notes I was given, and

whereas I would not want to insult the person who wanted to help me
with the notes, I am now inclined to think that a mistake was made
there..

> Now Egil had a short sword called Adder, more of a long knife

really, and he used Dragvandil and Adder in one fight, with success,
I am unsure but the time he fought Ljot the pale, to save Fridgeir's
sister from a fate worse than death, that must have been Dragvandil,
for he sliced off Ljot's leg, tib, fib, and knee-cap with one stroke.

> If Draupnir means Dripper, perhaps there is the connection with

Adder, for an adders fangs drip venom as a sword will drip blood,
that might be the making of a kenning.

> Oh my Gods, it is 23:53 and I have to go to sleep and dream of

this, I'm for finding my copy of the Hobbit, so g'night you guys

> Kveðja
> Patricia
> I am inclined now to think of Draupnir perhaps (only) to have

been a reference to the Gold rings given to him (Egil) by one of the
Kings and the notes I was given were mis-copied

>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Fernando Guerrero
> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: English to Norse (sword names)
>
>
> Saell Patricia, Xeon ok Llama,
>
> As for Draupnr, it is very curious to find it as a sword name,

as it is the name of the ring which Odinn put in Balder's funeral
pyre. Both Snorri's and the Poetic Edda attest this, and made it
very clear that it was a golden ring from which every ninth night
nine oher rings dripped. Thus the ON name Draupnir is believed to
mean 'the dripper'.

> It is also a dwarves name in the Thulur, which contrasted with

the ring which produces more rings and the fact that dwarves ars
good goldsmiths seems to have something to do with smithing rather
than slicing.

>
> Interesting re-use of the myth in the saga.
>
> Which chapter is it in?
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Fernando Guerrero
> Centre for Medieval Studies
> University of York, King's Manor
> Y01 7EP, York
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patricia
> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 6:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [norse_course] Re: English to Norse (sword

names)

>
>
> Saell Xeon, Llama,
> Please will you note the possibility of my having made an

error, in offering Dragvandil - Slicer as Egil's sword because in a
copy of the Saga of Egil Skallagrimsson I have found a "Draupnir"
and that too is translated as slicer, I so do not wish to spoil your
work by offering an incorrect name, I am pointing this out now
rather than you find this later, when it might be too late to
correct, you would want to take the word you feel is best ??

> Kveðja
> Patricia
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xeon_ies
> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 1:05 PM
> Subject: [norse_course] Re: English to Norse (sword

names)

>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your help, Llama! I must think of some

way to

> "beautify" these names as they seem kind of awkward to

the average

> reader, though.
>
> By the way, Ull's hall is called Ydalir and it

translates to "Yew

> Dales". What are Yews and Dales? Is it some kind of

magical morning

> dew or water droplet etc.?
>
> Thanks!
> Xeon.
>
>
> >
> > Hi Xeon,
> >
> > "Heiti" (poetic names) for bows:
> >
> > Almr, dalr, bogi, (elm, dale, bow)
> > ýr ok tvíviðr, (yew and two-wood)
> > sveigr, glær ok þrymr, (bent, sea?, stretch?)
> > sómr, skálgelmir. (honour/fitness, bowl-?)
> >
> > "Stinger" might be 'biti' or 'bítr', but these seem to

be prefered

> > for sword names. I don't know if there's a different

word

> > for "arch" that doen't mean "bow" as well, but 'bogi'

seems to cover

> > both. 'Dalr' must be from the curved shape of a

valley, and perhaps

> > by extension other curved things. I've read one

theory about the

> > name Heimdallr that relates it to this, in the sense

of "horn"--and

> > in Hervarar saga, the Huns are said to have horn-

bows. So maybe

> > that's the connection. Sveigr is related to the verb

sveigja "bend

> > [a bow]". Skál is a bowl--could that be a reference

to the bow's

> > curved shape too?
> >
> > 1) bogi/dalr/sveigr inn mikli (inn stóri).
> > 2) undrbiti
> > 3) biti inn efsti
> >
> > I don't know what -gelmir is. It occurs in a lot of

mythological

> > names. 'Gellr' means "shrieks, twangs" (gjalla "to

shriek/twang")

> > and is the word used for the noise of a bowstring, so

maybe you

> > could include that as one element: Undrgjalli, or

something like

> > that. Careful though: as we found out recently the

Icelandic Hobbit

> > translates Gollum as Gollnir!
> >
> > Not sure what 'sea' has to do with bows. Could there

be a

> > connection with similar words for "glistening,

splendour"

> > and "amber"?
> >
> > Llama Nom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "xeon_ies"

<xeon@...> wrote:

> > >
> > > Hi Llama!
> > >
> > > I've decided to adopt the names Dugvandill and

Harmbrenna for the

> > > sword names.
> > > And one more thing in which I'm thinking of giving a

name to Ull's

> > bow
> > > too. :-D
> > >
> > > What does the following words translates to?
> > >
> > > 1) "The Great Arch"
> > > 2) "Wonderous Stinger"
> > > 3) "Final stinger"
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Xeon.
>
>
>
>
>
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