Hello Kubrick! Maybe this is a very good list to bring up the topic. That is, if we limit ourselves to the language that was used on the Kensington stone. --- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "[ kubrick36 ]" <kubrick36@...> wrote:What are your thoughts on the Kensington Runestone? Supposedly, a large slab of stone was unearthed in 1898 in Minnesota with runes enscribed upon it. When transcribed, the runes said roughly: Front: 8 goter ok 22 norrmen pa opdagelsefard fra winland of west wi hade lager wed 2 skjar en dags rise norr fra dena sten wi war ok fiske en dagh aptir wi kom hem fan 10 man rode af blod og ded AVM fraelse af ille Side: har 10 mans we hawet at se aptir wore skip 14 dagh rise fram dena oh ahr 1362Ideally, I should have liked to see the text transcribed to modern Swedish. Unfortunately I am totally incapable of writing any Swedish that even approximates a correct spelling. Fortunately, on the other hand, after I switched to LINUX, I have access to spelling checkers in all the languages of the world. Hence, activating the LINUX Swedish spell-checker, I was able to produce the following text, that to me at least *looks* Swedish. (and *feels* Swedish too) But is definitly in need of a *real* Swede to look it over. ------------------- A: 8 göter och 22 norrmän på upptäcksfärd från vinland i väst vi hade lager ved 2 skär en dags resa norr från denna sten vi var ock fiske en dag efter vi kom hem fann 10 man röde av blod och döda AVM frälse av illa B: har 10 män vid havet att se efter våra skepp 14 dags resor från denna ö år 1362 ---------------------------- Here, however, is the same text in the shape of a Norwegian text: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A: 8 gøter og 22 nordmenn på oppdagelsesferd fra vinland i vest vi hadde leir ved 2 skjær en dagsreise nord fra denne sten vi var på fiske en dag efter vi kom hjem fant 10 mann røde av blod og døde AVM frelse fra ondt. B: har 10 mann ved havet at se efter våre skip 14 dags reiser fra denne øy år 1362 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So now you can compare to both modern Swedish, as well as modern Norwegian. What was noteworthy to me, while I was translating, was that the writer seems to have been unsure of when and how to use proper Scandinavian plurals. He seems to have been using English-style plural endings here and there. To me that indicates a writer who had not been speaking Scandinavian languages for a long time. Perhaps a son of Scandinavian immigrants who spoke Scandinavian at home, but otherwise spoke mostly English, and was thus handicapped when it came to details like when and how to use plurals in Norwegain or Swedish. There also seems to have been taking place a kind of mixing of Norwegian and Swedish words. Perhaps it was someone who had grown up in a mixed family. Maybe a Swedish mother and a Norwegian father, and then English with his comrades. That might explain the strange language. How the text would look in 14th century Swedish? Tough question. I do not have such a dictionary. Would have to look through textual material from the period. Time consuming. Maybe an old Swedish law text might help. I recall Hugo Pipping publishing such a text. (that actually did include a small dictionary as appendix to the text) But regardsless of that, I think the poor command of plurals is a real give-away. Maybe Haukur could translate the text to Icelandic? That would be rally instructive! Btw, words ending in -else are regarded as un-norwegian. Thus the "nynorsk" language (=reconstructed Norwegian) tries to avoid such words as much as possible. -else words are Danish imports. Norwegian was adulterated by massive Danish imports from 1537 onwards. Best Xigung P.S. In "nynorsk" the word used is "oppdaging". -ing endings are Norwegian. -else endings are Danish. In Icelandic the word for discovery is "fundur". In Old Norse it is "fundr". (=a 'finding' of something) Another Icelandic word that can be used is "uppgötvun". But I do not know if the same word is documented in ON. It might have been inspired by English un-cover/dis-cover. Examples: Þat sumar fór Eiríkr at byggja landit þat er hann hafði fundit og hann kallaði Grænland ^^^^ Menn mundu leita lands þess er Leifr hafði fundit. ^^^^^^"Eight Goths and 22 Norwegians on a journey of exploration fromVinland veryfar west. We had camp by two rocky islands one day's journey northfrom thisstone. We were out fishing one day. After we came home we found tenmen redwith blood and dead. AVM save from evil. Have ten men by the sea tolookafter our ships fourteen days' journey from this island. Year 1362" If the runestone is authentic, it would mean that the Norse where inAmerica(what is now the United States, that is) in 1362. However, many people believe that the runestone is a hoax mainly because of the languageuseddoes not match with the Old Norse that would have been spoken in1362 andlooks more similar to modern Swedish? The largest of theseanachronisms isthe word 'opdagelsefard.' Can you help me determine whether therunestoneis real or not? My Old Norse knowledge did not allow me to take on a project of this size. What are your expert opinions. The runic inscription, for those who can read it, can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/6726/kensington/kenrunes.htmA Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people. Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/ To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to: norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/norse_course/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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Daniel Bray Daniel Bray
School of Studies in Religion A20
University of Sydney NSW 2006 Australia
"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe." H. G. Wells