Hi Alan,
That was funny!
In my browser your message looked really strange! [at first]
(the new char for the "euro" monetary unit appeared
several times) and I couldn't understand anything
of what you had written with ON chars.


But then I went up to the browser's "View" menu,
and chose "Character Coding" > "Auto Detect" > "Universal".
I also had to choose from the "Character Coding" submenu
the option "Unicode(UTF-8)", which is at the very bottom.
When I did that, as if miraculously, the text cleared up,
and I could read it as straight-forward Old Norse".
I think, with your system, you might also be able
to go outside the old 255-char iso-scheme. Have you tried?

Best
Xigung

P.S. With respect to the phrase "ganga undan", I have a
feeling that it simply means "to go away". The reason
is that directional information or instructions are often
indicated by means of adverbs ending with the syllable -an.
An example from the Edda is Vsp. 4: "Sól skein sunnann á salar
steinar." (the Sun shone from the South onto the [ground's] stones)
You can say that in this example the ending -an has the meaning
of "from", i.e. is a directional indicator.

"Below" in the sense of being situated on a lower level
[than something else] is described by the preposition/adverb
"undir". "Undan" does not solely refer to a strictly
vertical line of positioning/motion, but can just as often be
a reference to a motion "away from" something/someone.

But it doesn't necessarily mean "to run away" although
in dangerous situation a certain quickness of motion
would also be implied. But an escape from .e.g. a prison
would, I think, also be a "komazk undan".









--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Thompson" <athompso@...>
wrote:
> Hi Sarah
>
> Even though both versions make sense, the more I think about I’m
still not convinced your interpretation is incorrect.
>
> The interpretation: “And those (horses) which never were accustomed
to run away from a man, now (unexpectedly) were (man)-shy” hinges on
“ganga undan” being translated as “run away” which is consistent wi=
th
Zoega’s definition “to escape, to absent oneself”
>
> The interpretation: “And those (horses) which never were accustomed
to be ridden by a man, now (predictably) were man-shy” hinges on
“ganga undan” , literally “to walk from beneath” being interpreted =
as
“to be ridden by” which to me, on face value, could be construed; but
I guess one would have to know if there were other examples from the
literature of it being used in this sense.
>
> Note also: gramatically, manni is dat sg of maðr, not pl.
>
> Question: Why is it skjõrr and not skjõr, in the neuter nom pl form?
>
> Alysseann
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sarah Bowen [mailto:bowensli@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 18 November 2003 12:33 AM
> To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [norse_course] Hrafnkel 101-125 / Laurel's
>
> Hi Laurel!
>
> I find it so helpful to do these translations as a group because you
get the benefit of another person´s perspective. I understood
>
> ok váru þau nú skjõrr, er aldri váru võn at ganga undan manni,
> and - were - these - now - shy - which - never - were - accustomed -
to - going - away from - people
> but these (horses), which never used to run away from people, were
now skittish,
>
> completely differently!!
> I had it as [literally] the horses were never used to walk under a
man - i.e. they were not used to being ridden (and so were skittish)!!
oops!
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: HYPERLINK "mailto:llawryf@..."Laurel Bradshaw
> To: HYPERLINK
"mailto:norse_course@yahoogroups.com"norse_course@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2003 11:41 PM
> Subject: [norse_course] Hrafnkel 101-125 / Laurel's
>
> Einarr kvað sér eigi mundu svá meingefit at ríða þeim hesti,
> Einarr - declared - himself - not - should - so - maliciously
inclined - to - ride - this - horse
> Einar said that he would not be so ill-minded as to ride this horse,
>
> er honum var bannat, ef þó væri mõrg õnnur til.
> which - to him - was - forbidden - if - yet - were - many - others -
towards
> which was forbidden to him, especially if there were many others to use.
>
>
> Einarr ferr nú heim eptir klæðum sínum ok flytr heim á Aðalból.
> Einarr - goes - now - home - after - clothing - his - and - removed
- home - to - Aðalból
> Einar then went home to get his clothing and moved over to Adalbol.
>
> Síðan var fÅ"rt (foert) í sel fram í Hrafnkelsdal,
> afterwards - was - brought - within - shieling - forward - in -
Hrafnkelsdalr
> After that (the sheep) were driven to a shieling in the upper part
of Hrafnkel's Valley,
>
> þar sem heitir á Grjótteigsseli.
> where - was called - Grjótteigssel
> which was called the Grjotteig shieling.
>
> Einari ferr allvel at um sumarit,
> Einarr - goes - very well - concerning - during - the summer
> Einar fared very well at it during the summer,
>
> svá at aldri verðr sauðvant fram allt til miðsumars,
> so - that - never - happens - missing sheep - from - all the way -
to - midsummer
> so that no sheep were lost in all the time up to midsummer,
>
> en þá var vant nær þremr tigum ásauðar eina nótt.
> but - then - was - lacking - nearly - three - of ten - of ewe - one
night
> but then one night nearly thirty ewes were missing.
>
> Leitar Einarr um alla haga ok finnr eigi.
> seeks - Einarr - about - all - pastures - and - finds - not
> Einar searched all the pastures and found nothing.
>
> Honum var vant nær viku.
> to him - was - lack - nearly - a week
> They were missing for almost a week.
>
>
> Þat var einn morgin, at Einarr gekk út snimma,
> it - was - one - morning - that - Einarr - goes - out - early
> Einar went out early one morning,
>
> ok er þá létt af allri sunnanþokunni ok úrinu.
> and - is - then - lifted - off - all - the mist from the south - and
- the drizzle
> and the mist from the south and the drizzle had all cleared.
>
> Hann tekr staf í hõnd sér, beizl ok þófa.
> he - takes - a staff - in - hand - his - a bridle - and - a saddle-pad
> He took a staff in his hand, a bridle and a saddle-cloth.
>
> Gengr hann þá fram yfir ána Grjótteigsá.
> goes - he - then - forward - over - the river - Grjótteigsá
> He went across the river Grjotteigsa (Grjotteig River),
>
> Hon fell fyrir framan selit.
> it - flows - in front of - forward - the shieling
> which flowed down from the shieling.
>
> En þar á eyrunum lá fé þat, er heima hafði verit um kveldit.
> and - there - on - the gravel banks - lie - livestock - which - at
home - had - been - during - the evening
> There, lying on the gravel banks, were the sheep that had been at
home during the evening.
>
> Hann støkkði því heim at selinu,
> he - drove - it [the sheep, collectively] - home - to - the shieling
> He drove them back to the shieling,
>
> en ferr at leita hins, er vant var áðr.
> and - went - to - seek - them - who - missing - were - earlier
> and went to look for the ones who were missing earlier.
>
> Hann sér nú stóðhrossin fram á eyrunum
> he - sees - now - the stud horses - forward - on - the gravel banks
> Then he saw the horses ahead on the gravel banks
>
> ok hugsar at hõndla sér hross nõkkurt til reiðar ok þóttisk vita,
> and - considers - to - seize - himself - a horse - certain/any - for
- service - and - thinking - to know
> and decided to catch one of the horses to use, believing
>
> at hann mundi fljótara yfir bera, ef hann riði heldr en gengi.
> that - he - would - more swiftly - over - to carry - if - he - rides
- rather - than - walks
> that he would make quicker progress if he rode rather than walked.
>
>
> Ok er hann kom til hrossanna, þá elti hann þau,
> and - when - he - comes - up to - the horses - then - chases - he - them
> So when he reached the horses, he chased them,
>
> ok váru þau nú skjõrr, er aldri váru võn at ganga undan manni,
> and - were - these - now - shy - which - never - were - accustomed -
to - going - away from - people
> but these (horses), which never used to run away from people, were
now skittish,
>
> nema Freyfaxi einn.
> except - Freyfaxi - alone
> except for Freyfaxi alone.
>
> Hann var svá kyrr sem hann væri grafinn niðr.
> he - was - as - quiet - as if - he - were - rooted - down
> He was as still as if he were rooted to the ground.
>
>
> Einarr veit, at líðr morgunninn, ok hyggr,
> Einarr - knows - that - passes - the morning - and - considers
> Einar knew that the morning was passing, and decided
>
> at Hrafnkell mundi eigi vita, þótt hann riði hestinum.
> that - Hrafnkell - would - not - know - that - he - rides - the stallion
> that Hrafnkel would never know that he rode the stallion.
>
> Nú tekr hann hestinn ok slær við beizli,
> now - takes - he - the stallion - and - forms - with - bridle
> So he took the stallion and bridled him,
>
> lætr þófa á bak hestinum undir sik ok ríðr upp hjá Grjótárgili,
> places - saddlepad - on - back - the stallion - under - himself -
and - rides - up - by - Grjótárgil
> placed a saddlecloth under himself on the back of the stallion and
rode up by Grjotargil (Rocky River Gorge?),
>
> svá upp til jõkla ok vestr með jõklunum,
> also - up - to - glaciers - and - west - along - the glaciers
> and up to the glaciers and west along the glaciers,
>
> þar sem Jõkulsá fellr undir þeim,
> there - where - Jõkulsá - flows - away from - them
> to where the Jokulsa (Glacier River) flows out from beneath them,
>
> svá ofan með ánni til Reykjasels.
> also - down - along - the river - to - Reykjasel
> and then down along the river to the Reykja shieling.
>
>
> A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.
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