But isn't it the H in Hrafnkell that makes it voiceless not really a voiceless R? i am confused. i thought the combination HR was just a way for the latin scribes to make the phonemic sound using latin letters because the sound being made isn't covered by the latin alphabet. Correct me if i am way off, because i am not a native speaker. i may be making a complete ass out of myself but like i said i am confused.
Jarrod
berglauga@... wrote:
berglauga@... wrote:
maybe not in your language, but in icelandic, r's can be unvoiced in that exact way
in the middle of a word, or in a final position, it's not written, but an unvoiced r at the front of a word is written Hr. just how would you pronounce Hrafnkell if not with an unvoiced, rolled r? just roll/flap your tongue behind your teeth while breathing out... without using your vocal chords.
it's simple, and also probably a good workout! :)
Berglaug
> If you are talking about voiced as in the -th in 'smooth' and voiceless as in the th- in 'thorn' then r is always voiced. voice refers to whether or not your vocal cords are vibrating and i cannot think of a single instance of an -r being voiceless.
>
> Jarrod
> Haukur Thorgeirsson <haukurth@...> wrote:
>> 1. Are all R's rolled? For example, are both R's in "ormr" rolled? Or both in "dvergr"?
>> Sometimes I find myself voicing the first R in these cases as you would an English R, and rolling only the second R.
>>
>> ( -r represents the R that is being rolled)
>>
>> orm-r
>> dverg-r
>> varg-r
>>
>> What is the correct form?
>
> In the modern language the first r's in the words above are certainly rolled.
> I'd worry more about the second r - it may tend to become a mere flap.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by voice. In the modern language the first r's are
> definitely voiced whereas the ending-r may tend to become unvoiced (it's "half-voiced").
> In a word like 'virki' (works) or 'skerpa' (sharpen) the first r is fully unvoiced
>
>> 2. Ending R's - do they have tone, or simple an unvoiced flap of the tongue?
>
> Tone? I'm not sure I follow.
>
> - - -
>
> Exactly how r was pronounced in various positions in the Old Norse dialects
> is anyone's guess. We know that the r of the grammatical endings developed
> out of another sound so I suppose it's conceivable that it was pronounced
> as a somewhat different allophone.
>
> Kve�
> Haukur
>
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