Hi,
Well, it doesn't have to be insults, it can be praise
too. I have also often heard it with "du" first,
and I suppose that is the more complete version.
For example, `Du, din heldiggris !´ (=you lucky guy)
which is what one might say to someone winning
at a lottery.

Actually, it is not completely described by the
categories insult/praise either, because it is
often used in a purely matter-of-fact way,
as saying "din gris!" when somebody spills jam.
It is not intended to insult, but rather as
expressing an observation.

Neither do I see any necessary connection
with the genitive case, since "din" is
merely a posessive pronoun. "Eg tok grisen
min til by'n", is a an example where "gris"
is accusative (object case), and the genitive
is nowhere to be seen.

In Old Norse it is mín that is the genitive
form of the personal pronoun ek. But the
posessive pronoun is listed as minn, and
has to be declined according to gender,
number and case, just like an adjective.
The difference is that the personal pronoun
most often stands alone (e.g. 'I give this
to you'), but the posessive pronoun is usually
accompanied by a noun (e.g. 'I give you my book').

It is of course possible that things are somewhat
different in Old Norse. But the way I understand
it is as if it expressed identity. i.e. 'Du din
idiot!' means approximately in English "Oh, what
an idiot you are!", and so to me it merely looks
like a way to avoid using the verb form "are".
But I may of course be wrong about that, because
when you learn a language you usually only learn
the phrases and how they are used, and after
some time you develop a feeling for meaning.
But you know nothing about how the phrases
came to be, which can only be learned by studying
language history, which most people don't find
very interesting, because they find they can
usually speak just as fluently by ignoring it.
As a documented Old Norse example, I mention
the use of þinn in calling "Hundrinn þinn!"
(=You dog!). Here you clearly see that the
posessive pronoun is used in the nominative case
and not in the genitive.

If I were to try to explain it to myself, I'd say
that þinn expresses a "labeling" process here.
You give a person "his" label, and he becomes what
the label says. Or maybe like in the card game
"svarteper": whoever receives the card has a black nose.
:-)


Well, strictly speaking "Scandinavia" is the peninsula
Sweden/Norway, which juts out from Northern Russia.
"Continental" is a word that the British liked to use
to describe their relationship with France, The Netherlands
and Germany. We use it too, but then in the same sense
as the English, i.e. as a word pointing to Germany
and France. I don't think an Englishman would say
"I'm going to the Continent" if he was visiting Russia
or Sweden (?)

In a wider sense "Scandinavia" is also used to include
Denmark and Finland. But somehow Iceland was not included
(and neither were the Faroe islands, nor Shetland/Hjaltland)
Hence one has come to use the word "Norden" when one
wishes to include all the countries where Nordic languages
are spoken. But I think this is a newer development.
In the sagas I often see "Norðrlönd" used, and I suppose
it means about the same as "Norden" does today. But
I am actually not quite sure, since dictionaries with
exact definitions are a later development.

Best regards
Xigung.

> Subject: Þvættikollurinn þinn! (Mod. Ic.) & Boðvarr bað bikkjuna

hans þegja

> (ON)
>
> Hi,
>
> I've become intrigued by this way of insulting people.
> To take the Modern(ish) Icelandic "Þvættikollurinn þinn!", to

analyse this

> as
> YOUR RUBBISH BRAIN would seem a bit odd, as it is more the

equivalent of YOU

> RUBBISH BRAIN; what if we analyse it as RUBBISH BRAIN OF YOU (the OF

being

> analogous to the OF in e.g. AN IDIOT OF A MAN)?
>
>
> ========
>
> Greetings, Simon!
>
> The continental Scandinavian languages (Swedish/Norwegian/Danish)

still use

> these "genitive insults", but almost always in direct address

(unlike Old

> Norse). To give some Swedish examples:
>
> _Din idiot!_ 'You idiot!'
> _Din fuling!_ 'You ugly thing!'
> _Din snuskhummer!_ 'You dirty old man!' (literally 'dirty lobster')
>
> I've seen only a few rare exceptions to the direct-adress rule, and

in those

> cases the speaker is deprecating *himself*: _Jag min dumbom som

glömde att

> ringa_! 'Like a fool I forgot to call!' (literally: 'I, fool of

mine, who

> forgot to call!')
>
> ----
> Ingeborg S. Nordén