Sæl Laurel!
 
Wow!  You´ve really got me scurrying to my grammar books for this!!!
 
OK.  This is what I´ve unravelled.  If anyone disagrees with me, please chip in!
 
You mentioned that in English "a few" and "few" convey a difference in meaning.  I agree and I think this is because they are also different grammatically.
 
"a few" is a pronoun - it can replace a noun.  E.g. How many people were there?  Oh, just a few.
 
"few" is an adjective (there are five criteria of what constitutes an adjective, but a word doesn´t have to fulfill all 5 to qualify - "few" definitely meets four of the five).
 
In ON, Gordon has "fár" in the glossary as a noun, or it can occur as an adverb.  However, in his grammar section he also includes it under Comparison of Adjectives (p.292). 
 
From the context of this passage, I believe that "fátt" is an adjective.  Barnes analyses it as:
    an adjective: strong, neuter, singular and nominative.  It is
    the subject of the clause, the neuter form is used
    because the adjective does not modify a noun with a
    particular number or gender.  In the absence of such a
    noun, the adjective becomes the head of the noun
    phrase.
 
You ask about "manna".  Well, according to Stefán Einarsson´s grammar of modern Icelandic, there is a construction called the "partitive genitive".  This is where you have a whole, of which a part is taken.  He gives the examples of
    tvö hundruð manna    -  200 men
    enginn þeirra             - none of them
 
I think "fátt manna" comes under this category. 
 
Please, Icelanders, have I got the right end of the stick or am I leading Laurel astray?  Please let us know if we're going wrong here! 
 
So to conclude, a purist would say we should use an adjective in English to translate the ON adjective which gives us:
 
    then he went into the hall and few men were there
 
How does that sound to you?
 
Thanks for keeping me on my toes!
Kveðja,
Sarah.
----- Original Message -----
From: Laurel Bradshaw
To: norse_course@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [norse_course] Boðvarr translation 1-8 -- one more question

3b. gekk síðan inn í hơllina, ok var þar fátt manna.
fátt=noun of fár=a few                Yes
 
manna=plur. gen. of maðr= of men    Yes
 
he goes - afterwards - into - the hall - and - were - there - a few - of men
 
then he went  into the hall, and there were a few men there.    Yes
 
fátt could be translated as either "few" or "a few" which are (to me anyway) semantically different in English i.e. there were not many people, or there were some people.  Because fátt is a noun, does that point to one or the other?  Is there an adjectival form?  I guess I'm taking a noun to mean "a few" rather than "few" but maybe it doesn't have that distinction?  Would men always be genitive, or could there be other constructions?
 
Laurel


A Norse funny farm, overrun by smart people.

Homepage: http://www.hi.is/~haukurth/norse/

To escape from this funny farm try rattling off an e-mail to:

norse_course-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.