Sæl Pelle!

See my correction in post 2890.

--- In norse_course@yahoogroups.com, "Pelle Erobreren"
<hveenegaard@...> wrote:
> >From: "konrad_oddsson" <konrad_oddsson@...>
>
> >Are you advocating any (or none)
of the following: 1) that pronounciation not be discussed 2) that we
use Modern Icelandic pronounciation 3) that we use 'old' pronounciat-
ion 4) that we use combination of 'old' and 'new'?
>
> None. I am not in a position to "advocate" any of the above on this
group. There are experts present (like yourself) who obviously know
much more about the subject than I do, and decide what the learners
should learn here. I simply objected to a flat-out statement
that "ö" should be pronounced as "a". That was all.

See my comments and corrections in post 2890. I originally mistated
myself about 'ö' in 'dögum', calling it a nasal (which it is not - I
believe I had something like 'löndum' in mind when I wrote that, in
which 'ö' would indeed be nasal). Regarding pronounciation, see my
correction in 2890: pronounced like 'a' in the direction of 'o' - a
unique sound somewhere between 'a' and 'o'.

And the only reason I did this was my
> (perhaps mistaken) belief that the majority of the students here
are present because they want to learn "classical" Old Norse, as
taught in Haukur's excellent lessons, which form the basis of this
group. But I am now realizing that the group seems to have mutated
into something quite different from a beginners' "norse_course". But
I think it is safe to assume that most of the members are still
hoping to learn some practical Old Norse here.

Yes, and keeping the more advanced students is of benefit to all. We
can all prove helpful in various ways.

Statements like "ö should be pronounced
> as a" are very confusing to these beginners, because they are in
diametrical opposition to the information these students receive
from modern, accepted textbooks.

I am not sure what most accepted textbooks in Old Norse have to say
about the pronounciation of 'ö', but the ones I have seen suggest a
pronounciation somewhere between 'a' and 'o' (if I am not mistaken).
I also remember having the impression that none of the writers were
in favour of modern icelandic pronounciation (which is the one both
of us actually use!) - interesting.

> [For those who missed Konrad's original statement, here it is again
> (from post # 2856):
>
> "The Old Norse Ö in 'dögum' was pronounced just like the regular A
in the other cases of the same word - only it was nasalized ( = short
nasal A)."] Correction: 'only it was pronouced IN THE DIRECTION OF
'Ö'' - a unique sound, somewhere between 'a' and 'o' (as one of the
glyphs used to represent the sound - 'ao' - would seem to indicate).

> When I objected to that single statement, I had no intention of
getting into a complicated argument about the evolution of the
ON vowel system (or anyone's private theories about this), nor was
it ever my intention to advocate any specific method of
pronounciation.

I am not sure whether you thought they were or not, but my postings
about the vowel-system were not in any way directed at you - they
were simply intended as general information about the history and
evolution of the system, a kind of 'how we got to the forms we see'
and 'how they are related'. I am glad folk found them informative.

> If you want to teach this to beginners, then be my guest. I have
now said all (and more) I ever wanted to say about it, and will
mercifully withdraw from this conversation. But I still object.

Pelle, I think you may have missed my correctiion in 2890? Have a
look at it if you will. We are clearly misunderstanding each other
on this issue at this point, as my views on the pronounciation of
'ö' are not out of line with those cited by you (in your comments
about the the views of textbooks and instructors at the U of Ice).
Whatever the case, we should indeed move on to the new and jolly.

Regards,
Konrad.



>
> Regards
> Pelle
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Find din ferie på MSN Rejser http://www.msn.dk/rejser