----- Original Message -----
From: "Pelle Erobreren" <hveenegaard@...>


> >From: "Lazarus Freyjasgodhi" <lazarus@...>
>
> >Syr = Sow (female pig) which had a different symbolism in Old Norse
>
> What was this symbolism? Has it been established? Are you
> perhaps confusing the concepts of sexuality and fertility?

This subject is not for this list. I am not confusing sexuality and
fertility (one leads to the other). On the other hand, if you mean by
'established' have dozens of historians and social-anthropologists published
countless articles on the subject - then no, it has not been established. On
the other hand, the information is there for anyone wishing the research it
for themselves.

> >Horn = a Horn (or corner or sharp angle or a small empty space) [This has
> >enough English euphemisms to satisfy any comic]
>
> Perhaps, but unfortunately this is not a name of Freyja. You
> are probably confusing this with her name HÖRN, which is quite
> a different word. The meaning is not fully established, but
> the form would indicate a relation with 'hör' (flax). Not very
> sexual, at least not to my mind.

I cannot confirm your spelling. My copies, in English or Ice., do not spell
it 'Hörn' which, if your are correct, would make a difference. 'Hör' does
mean flax. On the other hand, 'Hór' means adultery. Based on the lore
surrounding Freyja, I do not know of an instance in which Freyja is
associated with Flax or sheep but know of plenty involving sexual contact.
If you could give me your sources, I will follow up. My library is far from
complete.

> >Gefion = The Giver [since Freyja has few, in any, tales of her giving
> >things
> >away like King's do - it may appropriate to think of this as 'Giving
> >Herself']
>
> How do you reach the conclusion that Gefjun is Freyja?

This is not so much a conclusion as a quote:
"Freyia has many names when she was travelling among strange peoples looking
for Od. She is called Mardoll and Horn, Gefn, Syr."
-Snorri Sturlusson, trans. by Anthony Faulkes, Everyman Press 1987

> Snorri
> obviously thought of the two as separate,
> and so did the author
> of Lokasenna, seeing that they are both actors in that little
> drama. Possibly you are thinking of Freyja's name GEFN? This is
> etymologically a related name, but there is no reason to conclude
> that Freyja was constantly "giving herself away" to all and sundry.

The belief that 'sexuality' is a 'sundry' process is a Christian one. As a
goddess of 'sexuality' she is a being that connects people into
relationships which build familes and communities. In many (if not most)
non-Judeo-Xian lore, the dieties that oversee sexual relations are
additionally equated with every possible form of prosperity as you mention:

> The stem GEF- is very common in names of rivers and lakes in the
> Scandinavian area, and this is thought to refer to an abundance of fish.
We
> still say in Iceland that the ocean, or lake, or indeed the earth itself
is
> GJÖFULL, meaning "abundant, generous" (in fish and crops). The verb GEFA
> "give" also means "feed". Again, we are in the semantic domain of
fertility
> rather than sexuality. The sow produces meat, the meadow produces flax,
and
> the river and lakes produce fish.
> (I realize, of course, that the sexual function is a precursor of
> fertility, but that is not the point here. Sexuality and fertility
> are two quite distinct concepts.)

So, you can see that in my position, I agree with all of this.

<snip>

> Don't get me wrong, I do not at all object to your
> image of Freyja as an icon of rampant and unbridled sexuality.

Ah, here you mistake me. To me, Freyja's relation to Sexuality is akin to
the (for the lack of a better term) 'energy' involved ('inspiration'?) in
the production of great things (i.e., Svartalfs, Hnoss, Gersemi, etc.). Xian
attitudes towards 'Sexuality' are inappropriate when discussing her, and we
must remember that the authors we have to go from were male Xians long after
her formal worship was acceptable.
I never once claimed that Freyja was an "icon of rampant and unbridled
sexuality". What I have said is that the names left to us by male Xian
scholars appear to be epithets for sex. Another scholar once famously called
her a 'Bitch' - but does that mean she was one? I do not claim so.

> For
> all I know this may be exactly true. But when it comes to forcing
> her names to mean something they really do not, because you have
> made an a priori assumption that they must do so, I object firmly.

I have not made such 'a priori' assumptions. In truth, you have made the
assumption that I have provided all of the information at my disposal to
support my point.

I only provided what was appropriate to this list. If you would like to
continue this discussion off-list to go through the whole of my library and
documentation, then I am certainly available.

In turn, please provide the requested source-material for your own
information so I may better understand your position. It may turn out that
you are correct in your points, but I need to compare them with the rest of
my notes.

Respect,
Laz