Hei Gordon !

Your information about modern methods of teaching language
skills I find very interesting !

For me it is definitely true that there are "stages", "levels" or
"progressions" that one needs to pass through, and that these
levels should be passed in a certain order -- from easy to more
difficult -- which is the general answer to the question about
the most efficient way to learn a language.

One may of course argue that the "best path" is individual,
which is most definitely true when it comes to particulars.
For example, if you are already well versed in Latin morphology,
it could very well be that you ought to begin a study of Old Norse
by studying *its* morphology, and comparing it to Latin.

However, if you know next to nothing about "morphology" which
is not at all uncommon these days, a different path to Old Norse
would most definitely be in order. I like your idea of graded
excercises where "forms" are learned through lots and lots of
easy examples. The most common way of learning a language is
after all (still) the way 99.99% of the Earths population learns
it's mother language. That is through lots and lots of easy
conversation accompanied by "hands on" examples. e.g. "Hey lad,
fetch me that shovel, will you?" I am sure that *none* of my
comprehension of this easy example *ever* came to me by way
of any formal kind of study.

--- In norse_course@..., gfross@... wrote:
> --- In norse_course@..., keth@... wrote:

I also agree that for adults with some other IE language
as basis, the best way to progress with ON is to *first*
concentrate on mastering comprehension. i.e. one should
strive to become acquire *reading skills* first.
The ability *to speak* is a higher level, and is not
worth too much hassle in the beginning. It will begin to
arise by itself as one develops the reading skills.
Of course, it is not *forbidden* to play with the language
and try to make up sentences every now and then. That is
only healthy, and it is by impulses like these that *Nature*
teaches us to speak -- the playful way. But one shouldn't
let it be a major goal before one has achieved good reading
comprehension.

But how to achieve this with the internet as ones major tool,
and in particular by means of a mailing list where 99% have not
yet reached the level of speech ???

The image of a hand comes up. But oh je, it is a hand with 9
thumbs. Do childeren ever teach each other to speak ?
Proper reading skills first -- that definitely seems to be
the right way to go.


> >
> > There is also the alternative to pronounce Old Norse the way
> > it is taught in Norwegian schools. See for example Odd Einar
> > Haugen's "Norrøn Grunnbok", which I think is the best Old Norse
> > textbook currently available.
>
> Hei, Keth! Tusen takk for denne informasjon! (Forgive the errors;
> am learning only to read Norwegian, not to write it, and since I'm
> also learning to read Danish and Swedish at the same time, I may
have
> thrown in some Danish or Swedish words or spellings.)
No, that is quite good actually!

Personally I can read Swedish and Danish quite well, but
I cannot speak it. That isn't necessary either, since
Danes and Swedes generally understand Norwegian quite well.
Well, most likely, we do speak a bit more slowly, and are
careful to be distinct when pronouncing. We also insert
a few words of the other language here and there. But apart from
that, we just speak our own language. It isn't much different
from people with different dialects of English conversing with
one another.

> Anyway, vil jeg se paa denne bok av Einar Haugen.

Bra! Husk på at han heter Odd Einar Haugen. Einar Haugen
var en annen språkforsker som virket mye I USA. Jeg tror
han var professor ved Harvard-universitetet. Men han er død nå.
Odd Einar Haugen er imidlertid en helt annen språkmann, ikke
en gang i slekt, såvidt jeg vet. Han er ennå en ung mann
og satte sammen en hel serie med lærebøker i norrønt mål
for noen år siden. Dette var et ledd i det programmet som heter
"fjernord", som er et opplæringsprogram for studenter som
studerer språkfag på universitetsnivå på egen hånd.
Dersom du bestiller "Norrøn grunnbok" følger det visstnok
også med en CD-rom, der det er forskjellige øvingstekster
(tror jeg - jeg har ikke hatt anledning til å se på CD-romen,
da jeg har den forrige utgaven)

Selv har jeg nå prøvet en rekke norrøne grammatikkbøker.
Eldre norrønfilologer bruker f.eks. helst Ragnvald Iversens
bok. Men det må være fordi de er vant med denne. Selv har
jeg funnet ut at det går fortere å finne ut av ting når en
bruker O.E. Haugens bok. Den er også ganske fullstendig, og
har et utmerket stikkordregister. Forleden fikk jeg forresten
også tak i en engelsk bok om norrønt språk. Jeg mener at
forfatteren heter det samme som deg! Men det er nok en annen ;)
da førsteutgaven allerede kom ut i 1927. Om du vil kan vi
godt diskutere Gordons bok på denne listen, og sammenligne
med andre grammatikkbøker.

Dersom du velger å skaffe deg et eksemplar av O.E. Haugens
"grunnbok", så er det viktig a vite at den er beregnet på å
brukes sammen med Heggstads norrøne ordbok. Er du interessert
i å prøve en norsk internettbokhandel, så kan du muligens nå
fram via <http://www.bokkilden.no>. Jeg så nemlig at de
reklamertepå TV igår - og jeg tror at de har et rimelig bra tilbud.


>
> > Any way, I hope you see why Norwegian (or Danish) is often quite
> > easy to learn for foreigners, because you get a large number of
> words
> > "for free". Other examples: kommunikasjon, telegraf, sentrum,
> > meteorolog, historie, matematikk, bibliotek, diskusjon, debatt,
> > argument, grammatikk, morfologi, resultat, konklusjon, etc, etc..
>
> Og "informasjon" (se oppe). :-)
>
> Ha det bra!
I lige måde!

(that's Danish - but it doesn't matter :)
Keth



> Gordon