Re: Uvular trill's origins

> From Wikipedia:
> "There are two main theories regarding the origination of the uvular trill in European
> languages. (…)
>
> The other main theory posits that the uvular R originated within Germanic languages
> through a process where the alveolar R was weakened and then replaced by an imitation
> of the alveolar R (vocalisation). [3] As counterevidence against the "French origin" theory,
> it is stipulated that there are many signs that the uvular R existed in certain German
> dialects long before the 17th century."
>
> Could uvular trill have a substratal origin in Western Europe?

I fail to see how that would suggest substratal origin. Uvular trills are rare sounds and it is unlikely that any given substrate language would have featured it. The chronology does not seem promising either. A substratal origin in "Western Europe" in general is right out at least, and your best bet here would be substratal origin limited to some parts of Germany.

Even if "it is stipulated that there are many signs" (this sounds like an expression that could use elaboration), a more reasonable non-Parisian origin for uvular consonants would probably be the splitting of High German /x/ to front and back allophones [C], [X]. Once you have the contrasting pairs [f v], [s z], [C j], and the lone [X], there is obvious systemic pressure to introduce a voiced uvular continuant [R] as well (perhaps a fricative at first, perhaps not).

I'll leave it to people better-versed in German dialectology if this idea can be matched to the geographical spread of the two features, though.

_j.