Re: Latin acipe:nser "sturgeon"

From: dgkilday57
Message: 71770
Date: 2014-08-08




---In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, <octavianoaf24@...> wrote :

---In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, <dgkilday57@...> wrote :
>
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "stlatos" <stlatos@...> wrote:
> >
> > The start of the word shows the same variation seen in accipiter and acupedius, so an origin in 'water' or borrowing seems to gain no weight from it. All the same, even if you acknowledge the 3 are related, it doesn't completely rule out the possibility of borrowing if there was analogy among the three afterwards (as swift an. in the 3 divisions of the world).
>  
I regard <accipiter> as resulting from haplology of *accipitipitros 'falling headlong', which is what these birds do at great speed when attacking prey. Nothing to do with 'swift' or 'take' originally.

DGK:  Good Heavens, I had hoped that horrible haplology of my wasted youth was dead and buried.  Miguel Carrasquer and Ekkehard Dengler were absolutely right in their criticism.  Even coffeehouse beatnik Dus^an Vukotic' was correct to oppose my etymology, I must admit.

> > Then Hom. o:kupterós , K oxúpteros , next to oxúpous , L acupedius 'swift-footed' , would be a very great coincidence.
> Latin <acupedius> (pre-classical, only Paul. Fest.) has the expected zero-grade prefix *&3ku- (cf. <o:cior> 'swifter'). The problem I have with the 'swift-wing' explanation of <accipiter> is that it cannot explain the geminate. Crossing with <acceptor> is implausible. Most of the Romance languages have simply replaced <accipiter> with <acceptor>. Haplology of *accipitipitros (with obsolete *acceps replaced by <praeceps> in Cl. Lat.) avoids these problems.

DGK:  The disyllabic haplology introduces a new problem, the absence of other plausible examples of disyllabic haplology.  In my ongoing research into Kluge's Law in Italic, I found a much better explanation, which I was not planning on posting until I finished my comprehensive analysis of _agnus_, _magnus_, and _dignus_ (all of which pose APPARENT difficulties to my theory of KL in Italic, which Sean missed in his flurry of 16 posts (79 short of becoming the next Luther) critical of my original message on KL in Italic).  The draft paragraph below immediately follows my argument that the protoform of _agnus_ was paroxytone, thus not subject to KL.

 

 

Like _agnus_, Latin _agna_ 'ear of grain' can be understood as a primary paroxytone thematic noun, PIE *h2ák^-nah2 from the root *h2ak^- 'sharp', thus agreeing with Pokorny (IEW 20) apart from laryngeal anlaut.  By applying Kluge's Law, two other Latin derivatives of this root can be explained without the ad-hoc shenanigans usually found in handbooks, including the IEW.  Lat. _occa_ 'harrow' is the /o/-grade oxytone, PIE *h2ok^-náh2, and there is no reason to suppose that PIE *h2ok^etáh2 became Proto-Latin *otica: by metathesis, then _occa_ by syncope and assimilation (Hirt ap. IEW 22).  Lat. _accipiter_ 'hawk, falcon' can be analyzed as *acci-petros 'precise seeker', referring to the proverbial keen eyesight of this type of bird as it soars aloft searching for prey on the ground.  The second element is corradical with _petere_ 'to seek', while the first, Proto-Latin *accis, is identical to Lith. _as^nìs_ 'cutting edge; sprouting bud', from PIE *h2ak^-nís.  The sense-development of *accis was presumably 'cutting edge' > 'sharp cut' > 'sharpness, keenness, precision', which has a parallel in HG _Schneide_.  This etymology makes a great deal more sense than the arbitrary deformation of *acu-peter 'fast flier' into _accipiter_ (IEW 19), particularly since such a first element undergoes no alteration in Lat. _acupedius_ 'swift-footed'.


 
In my opinion, Latin accipiter would be a nice example of the shift -kw- >-kk- of which are examples in Italoid (aka "Illyro-Lusitanian") and Celtic and which I call "Kilday's Law" (in despite it isn't a "sound law" in the traditional sense) after our friend DGK.

The lexeme *akw-, whose original meaning can be reconstructed as 'swift', is the very same from which Latin aqua 'water' and Germanic *axwō 'river' derive. This secondary meaning is also found in the Old European Hydronymy (OEH). As it happens, the relationship between *akw- and *ōk´u- can't be properly explained by the std PIE theory.
 
DGK:  Please don't tease!  If you have an alternative to "std PIE theory" which DOES explain the relationship you have proposed, the rest of us need to see it in order to evaluate it!