From: dgkilday57
Message: 71192
Date: 2013-04-16
>Note the other OE glosses given by Schlutter, _wret_ 'warantiae' (against OHG _rezza_ 'uuarantia') and _wretbasu_ 'rubeum'. Not all OE glosses follow West Saxon phonology. Widsith has _Aetla_ 'Attila' (against MHG _Etzel_ usw.) and _Haetwarum_ against _Hetware_ in Beowulf.
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
> > >
> > > [...]
> > >
> > > Sumerian _urud_ 'copper' (the -u is the Akkadian nominative suffix from glossaries) is in my opinion borrowed from Balkano-Danubian *wrod- 'red', cognate with PIE *h1r(e)udH-. We are not talking about a specialized color like mauve or taupe. All of us have cut ourselves and seen blood, and we label it red.
>
> > > To the northwest, *wrod- in the sense 'red pigment, red dye' appears to have yielded some obscure OE and OHG glossary words (discussed in papers by O.B. Schlutter which I do not have handy) and survives in the first element of HG _ritzerot_ 'intensely red', which is to be understood as 'red pigment-red, as red as red pigment'. (The usual explanation labels this along with _gritzegrau_ and _blitzeblau_ as expressive formations. In my opinion _ritzerot_ is an etymological compound and provided the model for the others, which are analogical rather than expressive.)
> >
> > The relevant material by Schlutter is in Anglia 30(N.F. 18):248-9, 1907. OE _wraettere:ad_ is identical to NHG (Bavaria, Wetterau) _ritzerot_. The OE simplex is _wraette_ wk. f. (var. _wraet_ st. m.) 'Rubea tinctoria, or red dye obtained from it'. The OHG counterpart is _rezza_ glossed 'coccinum', 'coccum', 'murex', etc. The Gmc. protoform *wratja- corresponds exactly to *wrodja:, the Italic protoform of Sabine *rosa:, borrowed into Latin as _rosa_ after inherited *-s- had already been rhotacized (ca. 350 BCE).
> >
> PGmc. * wrat(i)jo:N > X wrette OE; not wrætte = madder OE; (as * sodeyo/e- > * satiyanaN > settan). It MIGHT be from PGmc. * wratujo:N since mid u > u/i/a opt.
>
> Making too much out of supposed exact cognates you create out of your too-eager-for-regularity methodology is a failing you can't continue after being corrected so often.I will waste no time responding to such drivel.
>
> The borrowings could be from, not one, but several IE forms, sim. to:And this is an improvement over what I proposed? Dyslexic Iranian nomads not only mixed up their phonemes but failed to read their maps correctly, and ended up bequeathing red dye to the Germans?
>
> In-Ir:
> * raudhá- > * rouHá- > lo:há-s = reddish metal S;
> but
> * raudhiyá- > * roudiyá- > ro:y = copper/brass MP;
> and
> * reudhiyó- > * reuDíy > * reuli >> * aröüli > aroyr -i- Ar;
> and
> * aröüli >> * aruli > rvali Geor;
>
> the latter In-Ir borrowings in forms that MIGHT be from Nuristani (with umlaut?) or one retaining e (like Bangani).
>
> Having several IE forms w the same meaning for this root is as clear as its opp. (having several meanings w the same IE form):
>
> rus^t = red Shugh; los.t.á- = rust/lump of earth/clay S; rúst OE; rust E;
>
> and both mixed in:
>
> rau~svas = reddish, rùsvas = reddish brown Lith; russus = red-haired, russeus = red-haired/dressed in red/dyed red, ru:fus = red-haired L;
>
> among others.
>
> Assuming * wroduyo- (among others?), I'd say met. * rowduyo- > * wroduyo- (or sim., more complex), making it closest to Iran. * roudiyá- > ro:y = copper/brass MP;
>