Re: Portuguese, Spanish bode "buck"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@...> wrote:

>
> > We are not talking about a specialized color like mauve or taupe. All
> > of us have cut ourselves and seen blood, and we label it red.
>
> Are you suggesting the original meaning of the word was 'blood', later
> shifted to 'red'?
>
> > No. Such a shift is not necessary.
>
> Actually, mine was a rethoric question. According to your etymological proposal, I must suppose a meaning shift from 'rose' to 'red'.
>

While 'red' <-> 'blood' and 'blood' -> 'red metal/iron' are common, 'red' -> 'rose' is quite unusual. This is why I think 'rose' -> 'red' is more likely.

> > The borrowings of *wrod- into IE lgs. mostly mean 'rose',
>
> Not really. This is a different root 'thorny bush' found in Italic
> *ruTo- 'bramble' > Latin rubus and North Germanic *wruT-/*wrud-
> 'sweetbrier' > Norwegian ol, orr, erre, Swedish arre. Also Tuscan
> dialectal forms such as rasa, ràzina, razzòla must derive from
> Etruscan *rathia.
>
> > No, 'rose' has nothing to do with the 'thorn-bush' word unless you follow Georgiev with his PIE *wrudH- > Pelasgian *wrud-.
>

Yes, that's right.

> > I discussed the Tuscan forms when dealing with Lat. _radius_ as a borrowing from Late Etruscan. I see no basis to connect them with any of the IE words, or with 'rose'.
>

In my opinion, Etruscan rath 'stick' doesn't belong here but it's related to Greek oródamnos, rhódamnos, rhádamnos 'bough, branch', a Pre-Greek word related to IE *wra:d- 'root, branch'. This is a Wanderwort found in Afrasian *rVhVt'- 'branch, rafter' (Semitic, Berber) and Georgian *rt'o 'branch, bough'. Latin ratis 'rafter' is probably an Etruscan loanword.