Re: Raven words

From: stlatos
Message: 70965
Date: 2013-02-22

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, johnvertical@... wrote:
>
> Background: I've been exploring some evidence for a possible unknown Uralic substrate in Finnic. One feature of this hypothetical substrate would be *w > pp after a liquid, e.g. _kärppä_ "stoat" vs. PU *käDwä "weasel".
>


That seems to work better with a rec. in which D is some kind of l or l' (alt. like:

kumuri = small cloud Fn; kovol = cloud Mv; homály = darkness Hng;

).


The ev. here:

http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/query.cgi?root=config&morpho=0&basename=\data\uralic\uralet

isn't for

*käDwä "weasel"

but

*kaDwa "female (of small fur animals)"


Saam (Lapp): gaDfe (N) 'mustela erminea femina'
Mari (Cheremis): kol'á 'mouse'
Khanty (Ostyak): köjëN
Mansi (Vogul): kal'
Hungarian: hölgy 'Dame; (altung.) Braut, Liebste; Hermelin'
etc.

seems to req. * kwalyaNxwa \ kwadyäxwa \ etc., if both rel. would make * kwaryamFwa \ kwaryäppwa "stoat" (with Kw \ Pw alt.), with no specific support on whether all the alt. was in PU or its daughters.


If < substrate, which I doubt, the pos. seem to be:

harmo = ermine OHG; carmun = weasel Rh-Ro; s^armuõ Lith

rel. to other words for 'grey', some with -w- not -m-, but meaning the same, etc.


If n > l , maybe:

kounábi G; kunadhe = marten Al;

rel. to (probl. borrowed):

kuná R;



If original -l- , maybe:

galée: = weasel G;

which COULD be < * gal-xY-wá:x or sim

rel. to (probl.):

gli:s = dormouse L; girí- = mouse S;


However, other words like:

* karma \ karpa \ karwa = fly

* kurma \ kurpa \ kurwa = snipe

make 1 substrate being the source of all this, which I doubt, less pos.


All seem to come from the same rec. (of phon. not sem.):

* kwalyaNxwa \ kuwalyämkwa \ etc.

which makes most sense if many older C all fell together (q > k , etc.).