Re: Italo-Celtic dialect base words?

From: ufnkex
Message: 70791
Date: 2013-01-25

>a footnote on p. 512 of Kauffmann's paper "Zur Geschichte des
>germanischen Consonantismus" (PBB 12:504-47, 1887). Kauffmann
>himself vouches for _fauchzk_ '50' in the grand duchy of Saxony, and
>cites Swabian _fuchze:_ '15', _fuchzk_ '50' from Birlinger (Alem. Spr.
>rechts des Rheins p. 178; Augsb. Wb. p. 149) and Weinhold (Bair. Gr.
>sec. 184);

{snip}

>Kauffmann also gives (presumably from his native Swabian dialect)
>_fuft_ 'fifth', _fufze:_ '15', _fufzk_ '50'.

He should've mentioned his neighbor dialect in the East, Bavarian,
spoken between the "Swabian" river Lech and Lake Balaton in Western
Hungary, i.e., a dialect region comprising inter alia Munich, Vienna,
Linz, Graz.

Actually ... fuchzg(e). I myself never say, whenever shopping
here in Bavaria, fünfzig, but always fuchz(i)g or fuffzig. A 50 eurocent
coin is called "a Fuchz'ge(r)l". Idem 15: fuchzehn.

Cf. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bairische_Dialekte

>Analogical processes probably began operating before this last stage
>was reached. Contamination of *finx with *funfta- very likely
>produced *finf, *finfta-, the most widespread protoforms.

Finf and fimf are not only assumed and ancient, but also ...
contemporary occurrences; i.e. both in (Eastern) dialects (incl.
Yiddish) and pronounced by speakers whose German's been the
tradition 2nd language (esp. various E-Eur. Slavic people); but it's
true, the phenomenon has been vanishing within younger generations,
esp. after WW2). Namely, by people who traditionally render [ü] >
[i], and [ö] > [e] (cf. "bei mir bist du schee(n)", Knöd(e)l > Kned(e)l,
München > Minga, früh > frie/fria).

Cf. in Bavarian: fünfundzwanzig = ``fimfazwånzg(e)´´,
fünfhundert = ``fimfhundad´´ (or rather fimfhundat).
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bairische_Dialekte

George