--- In
cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
>
>
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> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@> wrote:
> >
> > b <-> m is very common in Celtic and Ibero-Romance. How common is it elsewhere?
>
> Not very, to my knowledge. I think <hi:bernus> is regular, or at least I have not yet found a counter-example with an original heavy vowel before *-mr-.
>
There's no reason to think an original heavy vowel would cause a dif. outcome or that ri > r, ever occurred there in L. In:
hi:bernus L; kheimerinós G; jmeRn Ar;
you seem to assume:
*
gYHeimerinós
gYHiimerinós
gYHiimrinós (Exon's Law)
gYHiimr_nós
gYHiimr,nós
gYHiibr,nós
but mid. -i- can opt. disappear before Exon's Law, as in:
* bHergYHixYnos > * pHörgYHsYinos >
* farxinus > fra:xinus = ash L;
* farxinus > * farxnus > farnus = ash L;
(comp.: björkna = silver bream Sw; )
This same rule (mid. -i- can opt. disappear) seems to occur in other IE, very old, even in this same word (since * gYHeimeRino+ > * jHeimeRno+ * jimeRno+ > jmeRn Ar; instead of * jimeRino+ > X jmeRin).
Compare retained -in- in:
iktí:n = kite G; cHin Ar;
* dwisino+ > * rkikHino+ > krkin = double / again Ar;
mélmenys (p tan) = fat around the kidneys Lith; mélmini \ mélmen,i (p) Latv; marmin = body/flesh Ar; mammó Got;
> Some of the Ibero-Romance examples are due to haplology of *ambi-b-, but offhand I do not know how far this explanation works.
>
> > Latin formica indicates an original /bh-/
>
> Or /gWH-/.
>
> > But the Greek forms suggest /b/
> > did /b/ and /bh/ ever get confused?
>
> Not in word-initial position in Greek or Latin, and it is hard to argue for borrowing of these words. Perhaps <formi:do:> 'hot flash' > 'fear, dread' was crossed with *mormi:ca:tio: vel sim. 'formication, antsy feeling' due to semantic overlap, and <formi:ca> was then extracted from <formi:ca:tio:>, encouraged by the tendency for tabuistic substitution of 'ant' words.
>
You omit the original question, which shows the same (and long-acknowledged) m-m > f-m:
formi:do: = fear \ frightful thing L;
mormó:(n) (f) = spectre/bugbear G;
múrmos = fear, mormo- (cp) G;
Only ridiculous acrobatics can attempt to move around the clearly irreg. nature of related changes such as:
m>f-m in:
formi:do: = fear / frightful thing L;
mormó:(n) (f) = spectre/bugbear G;
múrmos = fear, mormo- (cp), mórmoros = fear G;
mRmRas = Easter-bogy Nor Ar;
formi:ca L;
bórma:x \ búrma:x \ múrma:x Dor G;
maoiri:- Av; vamrá-s , valmí:- S;
mrj^imn Ar; mOrmOnj^ = ant LoR Ar;
morm \ mor = tarantula Ar;
m>f-n in:
hi:bernus L; kheimerinós G; jmeRn Ar;
m>n-f in:
[temafra:i] tenebrae (f p tan) = darkness L; támisra:s V S; trAms^á = twilight Kv; demar = twilight OHG;
m-f > f-m ??
fo:rma = form/shape L; morphé: G;
m-m>w in:
mi:luus L; mérmnos G;
m-m>0 in:
[mams] ma:s = male L; [mimzá+N] mimz = meat Got;
versus nothing in words like:
membrum L; meNzdrica = membrane of egg R-CS;