Re: Lat. gladius and Sorothaptic

From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
Message: 69951
Date: 2012-08-07

Now we have read some opinions on the question itself, but it
still remains unclear to me what Corominas' idea on that very point
was. Does anyone have evidence about it?

2012/8/1, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>:
> Yes, You have greatly helped me; thank You very much indeed!
> So, it's quite a full paper, but maybe most of the entry is made of
> lexical evidence from Modern Languages. Still, what remains by no way
> clear is the diachronic phonological reason for */k/ > /g/ and whether
> the loan sequence is Sorothaptic > Celtic > Latin or Sorothaptic >
> Latin beside Celtic.
> I think these questions are relevant to the list and don't run the
> risk to violate any Rule of Proper Conduct on Cybalist
> 2012/8/1, Ton Sales <ton.sales@...>:
>> Coromines puts /gladi, gladiada, gladiador, gladiatori, gladiol,
>> gladiola, glai/ and /glaia/ in their right alphabetical place, in a
>> single line in vol. 4, page 521, where the reader is redirected to the
>> /esglaiar/ entry, which can be found in vol. 3 p. 583 and runs through
>> more than three packed pages. He derives it from colloquial Classic
>> Latin /gladius, /which he says is adopted from Celtic, during the Gallic
>> invasions of Italy, meaning a weapon for slaughtering humans and also
>> the associated mortal terror the Catalan and Occitan verb still
>> conserves. Towards the end of the article, on p. 586, he states that,
>> assuming a "Sorotaptic" (ie. /Urnenfelder/) origin, the Celtic word may
>> directly derive from *kláuiios (first u and second i semivocalic), a
>> near relative of OldPruss /kalabian/ 'sword', that Uhlenbeck relates to
>> Skr/karava:lah/. Then he asserts that a convincing IE etymology for the
>> Baltic /kalavějas/ may be the root found in Lith./k//á//lti/ 'strike'
>> (cf. Pok. IEW 546), a root from which the following also derive: Celt.
>> /kladios /'sword', Lat. /clades /'slaughter' and, with a /wo/
>> enlargement, Lith. /kalvis/ 'smith' and Lat /clava/.
>> I hope this will help.
>> Ton Sales (Barcelona)