Re: Lat. gladius and Sorothaptic

From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
Message: 69933
Date: 2012-08-03


2012/8/3, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>:
> I think gladius is from *g'hlh2-dyo-s (with Wetter-Regel and
> non-Sievers generalization of *-iyo-) from *g'helh2- 'to be very upset
> and t manifest according behavior, to be in a fury, to rage with
> anger, to be extremely vigorous out of anger, hostility' (C. Michiel
> Diressen, "Evidence for g'helh2-, a New Indo-European Root", The
> Journal of Indo-European Studies 31/3-4, Fall/Winter 2003, pp.
> 279-305).
> If one doesn't accept the generalization of *-iyo-, gladius should
> be indeed a Celtic loan (with CRH- > short Cra- before plosives)
> 2012/8/3, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...>:
>> That's of course the problem
>> 2012/8/3, Rick McCallister <gabaroo6958@...>:
>>> Given Gaelic cladheamh, why /g/ in the putative Gaulish
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Tavi <oalexandre@...>
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 1, 2012 8:48 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [tied] Lat. gladius and Sorothaptic
>>> --- In, Ton Sales <ton.sales@...> wrote:
>>>> Coromines puts /gladi, gladiada, gladiador, gladiatori, gladiol,
>>>> gladiola, glai/ and /glaia/ in their right alphabetical place, in a
>>>> single line in vol. 4, page 521, where the reader is redirected to the
>>>> /esglaiar/ entry, which can be found in vol. 3 p. 583 and runs through
>>>> more than three packed pages. He derives it from colloquial Classic
>>>> Latin /gladius, /which he says is adopted from Celtic, during the
>>> Gallic
>>>> invasions of Italy, meaning a weapon for slaughtering humans and also
>>>> the associated mortal terror the Catalan and Occitan verb still
>>>> conserves. Towards the end of the article, on p. 586, he states that,
>>>> assuming a "Sorotaptic" (ie. /Urnenfelder/) origin, the Celtic word
>>> may
>>>> directly derive from *kláuiios (first u and second i semivocalic),
>>> a
>>>> near relative of OldPruss /kalabian/ 'sword', that Uhlenbeck relates
>>> to
>>>> Skr/karava:lah/. Then he asserts that a convincing IE etymology for
>>> the
>>>> Baltic /kalavìjas/ may be the root found in Lith./k//á//lti/
>>> 'strike'
>>>> (cf. Pok. IEW 546), a root from which the following also derive: Celt.
>>>> /kladios /'sword', Lat. /clades /'slaughter' and, with a /wo/
>>>> enlargement, Lith. /kalvis/ 'smith' and Lat /clava/.
>>> As I mentioned before, Coromines' "Sorothaptic" is roughly the same
>>> language than Villar's "Italoid" and DGK's "Illyro-Lusitanian". It's
>>> located somewhere between Baltic and Italic in the IE dialectal cloud.