Re: Origin of *h2arh3-trom 'plough'

From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
Message: 69894
Date: 2012-07-14

I'm slowly downloading it; I'll read it with great interest. Thank You
very much!

2012/7/13, Tavi <oalexandre@...>:
>> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski gpiotr@ wrote:
>>
>> > But the word 'earth' would
>> > descend from the languge(s) spoken by the Neolithic farmers, so it
>> > would be related to the Afrasian word.
>>
>> > Non sequitur, if there ever was one.
>>
>> > IMHO these Germanic-Afrasian (especially Semitic) isoglosses must
>> > reflect the languages spoken in Central Europe Neolithic.
>>
> This is in accordance with Villar's model, where Neolithic farmers from
> Anatolia spoke paleo-IE dialects à la Renfrew. Together with
> Afrasian, they will constitute a branch of Eurasiatic which expanded
> with agriculture à la Bomhard, although the real "Nostratic" is much
> more reduced than the one proposed by Nostraticists.
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
> <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@...> wrote:
>>
>> anyway Villar is closer to me than to you, and the three of us are
>> equally far from Alinei
>>
>> > Not really, because Villar's model consist of a very early
> "paleo-IE"
>> > which fragmented into several paleo-dialects detectable in the
> ancient
>> > topoponymy and hydronymy. Only much later the historical IE
> languages
>> > emerged, arising from the "explosive" (in Villar's own words)
> expansion
>> > of the Steppes dialect in the Chalcolithic-Bronze Age, replacing
> other
>> > linguistic varieties which acted as substrates.
>>
>> OK, this is a pertinent discussion. In my opinion, if you leave a
>> wide place for VC in European prehistory and both Villar and I don't,
>> Villar is closer to me than to you, because such a difference is
>> greater than preconstructing Palaeo-IE with /o/ or with /a/, with /b d
>> g/ of /bh dh gh/.
>>
> As you can see, I've now changed my mind. Linguistic evidence points to
> VC speakers being agro-pastoralists rather than farmers, and so their
> influence was more significant in the Mediterranean area.
>
>> I agree (against Alinei) that Kurgan peoples probably spoke PIE; with
> Renfrew, I think that PIE was spoken
>> also before them, for instance from Anatolian agriculturalists;
> against Renfrew, I think that PIE was spoken
>> also before the rise of agriculture and not only in Anatolia or the
> Steppes.
>>
> Not "PIE" (which properly speaking didn't exist) but different
> *paleo-IE* (i.e. Eurasiatic) varieties.
>
> Quite interestingly, Kurgan people were nomadic farmers and their
> language(s) had VC loanwords such as the word for 'horse' and the verbal
> augment. For more information, you can read this old article
> <http://starling.rinet.ru/Texts/iecauc.pdf> (in Russian) by Starostin.
>
>