Re: Ligurian

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Bhrihskwobhloukstroy <bhrihstlobhrouzghdhroy@> wrote:

> > 2012/5/3, dgkilday57 <dgkilday57@>:

> > > But we already have Gaulish personal names on
> > > Lepontic inscriptions and coins. Whatmough explained this easily in 1933,
> > > and he referred to the inscc. as "Kelto-Liguric" (i.e. Ligurian with Celtic
> > > superstrate). We have Latin names in Etruscan inscc., and that does not
> > > make Etruscan an Italic language.
> >
> > Bhrihskwobhloukstroy:
> >
> > Etruscan inscc. have plenty of Etruscan lexical items, Lepontic
> > inscc. unfortunately much less of Lepontic lexical items, but
> > nevertheless please show me that the majority of Lepontic lexicon
> > contrasts with Celtic lexicon.
> > You'll find <pala> and <pruuia>. <pala> can have many etymologies,
> > so it neither proves nor disproves anything; <pruuia> /bruwya:/ :
> > Gaulish bri:ua: 'bridge' insists on an onomasiologic difference in
> > Celtic itself (bri:ua: vs. drochet).
>
> The Lepontic form is <pruiam> and I can see no principled way of getting it out of *bHreh1wo- 'bridge'. I suggest instead the acc. sg. of *gWrh2u-jeh2- 'heavy stone', referring to the inscribed heavy stone itself. Before Whatmough, scholars read the last word of the text as <palai>, which could be loc. sg. 'in the plot'. The legible part of the Vergiate text is then:
>
> pelkui:pruiam:teu:karite:i[--------]ite:palai
>
> Problems abound with taking <teu> as a postposition and <karite> as a passive verb. Instead <karite> could be understood as an instrumental or other adverbial word, along with <...ite>, with the subject <i...> largely effaced. I hypothesize <teu> as an active verb, an unreduplicated 3sg. root-perfect, Lep. /de:u/, corresponding to Skt. <dadha:u>, and containing *-w as an archaic root-perfect formant, PIE *dHeh1-w 'has placed'. In this view the Lat. /w/-perf. originated from root-perfs. with laryngeal-final roots, <(g)no:vi:>, <-ple:vi:>, etc. (cf. Skt. <jajn~a:u>, <papra:u>). The text is then to be partially read as follows:
>
> '... (acting with) ... (and) ... has placed (this) heavy stone in the plot for Belgus.'
>
> Possibly Lep. <tetu> (Prestino) can be similarly analyzed as a reduplicated root-perfect *de-deh3-w (Skt. <dada:u> 'has given'). Narbonese Gaulish has <dede> which can hardly be the exact morphological equivalent.
>
> DGK
>

Hamp read it as a burial poem, which it obviously is, as in Celtic, with Lepontic < Celtic. Combining our interpretations:


Pelkui pruiam Teu karite, is^os kalite palam
Belgu:i bru:yam De:wu: karite, is^os kalite pallam
Belgo-for tomb/grave De:won- made, he raised (grave) stone
De:won- made Belgo- the grave, he raised the stone



With:


Belgu:i the (d) of a (m) name < ~ Belgae

bru:yam (a) = *mount/cairn > tomb/grave; the dim. of * gWr.-x-yú+ < * gWL-x-xYú+ = heavy (stone) / etc.
(see: gur = stone Alb; girí- = mt V S; girià\gìre: Lith; deirás \ de:rás Cret (f) = hill, deirós Hes, hupsídeiros = with high cliffs, boréa:s = *mt > north wind, hyperboréoi = inhabitants beyond Thrace G; )

Teu {De:wu:} the (nom) of a (m) name < * de:wo:n < * d*ey-xY-wo:n. ; the dim. ( = son/desc. of) of * d*ey-xYu+ d*ey-xY-w+os = god

karite (impf 3s) = made; karnitou Gaul; kr,n.oti \ karoti = do/make S; (note n/0 in both) < * kWr.NYe+ < * kwr.NYe+ < * kr.NYew+ = bend/make/do , with mixing in some

is^os = he < *sos , ì+ (clitic) ?

kalite (impf 3s) = raised < * kal+ \ * kel+

palam {pallam} (a) = stone (mt, grave , etc. ?)
(see: all = rock/cliff OIr; pélla Hes G; pétra = rock, pétros = stone G; etc. )


or
(closer to Hamp's reading)


Pelkui pruiam Teu karite, is^os kalite palam
Belgu:i bru:yam De:wu: karite, is^os kalite pallam
Belgo-for tomb/grave De:won- put, he raised (grave) stone
De:won- put Belgo- in the grave, he raised the stone



With:


karite (impf 3s) = put; cuirethar (pr 3s) = put OIr; < * kór.eyè < * kór. exYè = bend/make/do/put, w common change put (in) > bury


All changes show Lepontic < Celtic:

gW > b , -o:n > -u: , -o:i > -u:i , r>ar/_S (karite : karnitou), Ls > ll (palam {pallam} : all = rock/cliff)

along w such close corr. as:

karite : karnitou, Belgu:i : ~ Belgae, palam {pallam} : all = rock/cliff OIr; (with a vs e in: pélla), etc.


The presence of p is not against this if the common Celtic change was p > pF , with most dia. pF > F > xW , etc.