Re: Schöffe I

From: Torsten
Message: 69268
Date: 2012-04-07

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "ufnkex" <spamstorage@...> wrote:
>
> >I was wondering, since apparently Cz. skopec is a
>
> It was this one that attracted my attention, and then I saw those
> other numerous words with close phonetics and meanings. This
> reminded me a slangy-dialectal word I heard in my childhood in my
> dialectal region: /shklopetz/, with the approx. sense
> "flibbertigibbet; churl, simpleton; dumb". I then had thought it
> must have been some play of the gab based on a regional and
> Hungarian word for "hat" (/klop/ & kalap). Now I realized that those
> kids must have picked up some loanword, and that one was perhaps on
> either Slovak or Czech loanword; either via Hungarian or from small
> Czech and Slovak diaspora communities in my region.
>
> This is why I'd rather expect Pol. szkopec to be something related,
> and having nothing in common with Schöffe and Schwab.

Well, you could say they were at either end of the stick, so to speak, slavers ands slaves, but I admit that all I have so far is a root etymology.

> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wether
> >(from skop-iti "castrate")
>
> The "skopiti" once played a role: it was a late sect, in Russian
> /skapetz/, in German die Skopzen. But it was a late one: in the
> 18th century. If Pol. szkopec means the same thing, then forget
> about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skoptsy

In a country like Russia, what are the chances that some isolated movement is registered by the authorities, unless they draw attention to themselves?

> >Yes, the the Phoenician-Hebrew shopet/shofet would have arrived not
> >from the west but from the east, from the Bosporan Kingdom, through
> >the Bastarnian lands.
>
> But only as an indirect loan or wandering word: via the
> intermediate: Turk tchaban (also see the Hungarian name Csaba) and
> Slav. zhupan.

We don't have to assume that, there were people speaking Hebrew in the Bosporan Kingdom.

> So, if Bastarnians had a variant of this notion, then presumably
> from neighboring Iranic (and later on Turkic) idioms-speaking
> populations (e.g. of the Yazygian, Roxolan, Alan kind).

See above.

> >I haven't seen anything that would force me to divide the word sets
> >into the three categories you claim to see. The semantics covers
> >something like "judged" / "castrated" / "wether/sheep/herd". It all
> >makes sense in a slaving context.
>
> Yes, but how old is the Russian and else Slavic "castrate" notion
> skopets? To include this one into the "equation", the word must have
> had some ancient link either with shopet or with shaban/chaban.
> Otherwise I'm afraid it doesn't work.
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlysty
Bad etymology. Cf.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66719?var=0&l=1
'ktístai "Thracians, living in celibacy; monks" (Strab.). There is no
convincing etymology.'
esp.
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66755

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/67468?var=0&l=1