Re: Latin corvus

From: Joao S. Lopes
Message: 69020
Date: 2012-03-18

Usually crows and ravens have onomatopoeics names with GR-, KR-.

JS Lopes

De: Tavi <oalexandre@...>
Enviadas: Domingo, 18 de Março de 2012 9:39
Assunto: [tied] Re: Latin corvus

--- In, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> Orël-Stol'bova: Hamito-Semitic Etymological Dictionary
> 1008 *g.arub- "darkness"
> Sem *g.arb- "sunset, evening":
> Akkadian erbu, Hebrew ´ereb, Geez ´arab, Harsusi g.arb.
> Cf. *g.VrVb- "be dark": Arab g.rb, Geez ´rb..
Noticed that the Arabic toponym MaGrib 'west' (where /G/ is X-SAMPA for the voiced velar fricative) also corresponds to this root.

> Western Chadic *rubaH- "darkness":
> Sura rap, Angas ra:p, Sayambi rub-gir, Dwot rup-3^ur.
> Metathesis.
> Central Chadic *rub- < *rubVH- "darkness":
> Matakarn ruva. Metathesis.
> [from a previous post ]
> > which is the word some derive 'Europe' from.
Yes, this is possible if we assume a protoform *e-Grub- with a (non-Semitic) prefix *e-, vocalization *G > /u/ and devoicing *b > p.

> Note that *g.urab- "raven, crow" and *g.arub- "darkness" may be
> etymologically connected. Cf. Slav *vornU "raven, crow" = *vornU, "black".
Possibly, but not likely. While bird names are usually of onomatopoeic origin, what we have in Slavic is the derivation of a colour from the name of an animal (either bird or not), which is a rather common phenomenon.

I agree, however, to the connection between Latin corvus and Semitic *Gurab- 'raven, corb', and I think there're other similar correspondences, not only in bird names but also other animals such as 'male goat', 'boar', 'bull' and even 'crab' in Germanic. Unlike Vennemann, I don't think they're necessarily loanwords from an Afrasian language spoken in Neolithic (Central) Europe, but rather Wanderwörter which reached Semitic and sometimes also Chadic.

Of course, they also were Wanderwörter the other way around, mostly related to agriculture and which include the numeral '7'.

--- In, "Arnaud Fournet" <fournet.arnaud@...> wrote:
> *g.urab- "raven, crow" is to Latin corvus what
> *g.arub- "darkness" is to Latin crep-usculus.
Not really. Latin crepusculus is most asuredly an Etruscan loanword related to Greek knéphas 'darkness, twilight', with n > r in Etruscan.