Re: Hercynian (again)

From: Bhrihskwobhloukstroy
Message: 68606
Date: 2012-02-27

@Trond: why the Carpathians and not, for instance, the Alps (as well)?
@Octavià: (we had already discussed the topic in other lists) a
Non-Indo-European substrate can be alternative to an Indo-European
etymology only if one has documented Non-Indo-European languages with
assuredly known diachronic phonology and where those lexical items are
precisely attested in the very expected form; otherwise it's just
possible, but always less probable (because far less economical) than
a plain Indo-European etymology. A diachronic phonology based simply
on comparisons between words attested in Indo-European languages only
and in unexpected mutual phonological relationship runs the risk to be
based on simply wrong comparisons

2012/2/25, Tavi <oalexandre@...>:
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Trond Engen <trond@...> wrote:
>>
>> <Hercynia> is seen as a latinization of a Celtic word corresponding to
>> Gmc. *fergun- "mountain". Today it struck me that if Lith. <Perkunas>
>> "god of heaven and thunder", ON <Fjörgyn> "mother of Thor" is the
> same
>> word, that would give us an independent example of the IE dualism
>> "stone/hammer" ~ "sky" that we glean from the "hammer" word.
>>
>> And now I'm thinking: Since the Hercynian forest spanned across
> central
>> Europe from the Rhine to the horizon of the known world, is it
> actually
>> possible that *perkW-un- is reconstructable for Indo-European not only
>> as a generic "mountain (range)" but as a toponym designing the
>> Carpathian mountains, and could that be the very origin of the IE
>> semantic duality? Would the Carpathians be the "sky mountains" seen
> from
>> the Pontic plain? Would that be where the god of thunder killed the
>> dragon and unleashed the waters?
>>
> IMHO the root *perkW- 'oak, pine' isn't a native IE word but rather a
> substrate borrowing (call it "Paleo-European" or whatever else), and its
> similarity to the name of a thunder god in some cultures is purely
> coincidential. There's no need to imagine implausible semantic shifts
> and the like.
>
>