GUESTUSER wrote: OTOH, the
explanation in Webster ''Yiddish klots, literally, wooden beam, from Middle High
German kloz lumpy mass'' would imply that the semantic change (from "lumpy mass"
> "wooden beam") occurred only in Yiddish. Yet the semantic change was a
pan-German phenomenon (and, I assume, a concomittant one). The idea of a large,
clumsy, awkwardly moving person as well as the further, secondary, idea of being
ill-mannered, boorish, churlish, an elephantine slob among fine chinaware things
etc are covered by this association: Holzklotz (a wooden Klotz), which is, as
such, eloquent enough.
I.e., these metaphorical concoctions probably
came into being long after Klotz had stopped meaning a lump of the Kloà (Kloss)
kind (incl. dumpling) for most of native-speakers at least in the southern
"half" of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation. This is why Kloss/Klut/Klüt
and Klotz for a long time now have been/perceived (as) different words. A
non-linguist might assume a kinship only when taking into account the Low German
variants, that are quite similar or the same for both meanings.
So it is in Yiddish (a rather... modern
Oberdeutsch dialect, and not that much of a 13th-14th c. German as one might be
prompted to deem it by the forever mentioning of MHG): AFAIK, to mean Kloss,
one'd rather say Klump and (for edible) Kned(e)l (and to a lesser extend or
never Klösse or so, despite the fact that very many Jews were nextdoor
neighbors of native-speakers who spoke those German dialects that used Klösse
and Klöpse (esp. in territories that belong to Poland and the Baltic states). I
assume that Yiddish Klotz has even less connections to Kloss in the collective
memory than it is the case in German dialects. (In Southern, i.e. "Oberdeutsch"
and "Mitteldeutsch" dialects, Kloss and Klops are not very usual - instead:
Klump & Knödel/Knedl. Yiddish is an "Oberdeutsch" dialect too, close to
Bavarian, Franconian & Suebian.)
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ISHINAN: Gentlemen, after reading
your exchange on the 'kludge' topic, I came to the conclusion that a
Yiddish connection is more likely. My opinion
rests upon the belief that it is influenced by an
earlier unidentified Hebrew term which was retained by the speakers of the
Jewish community in Eastern Europe and reintroduced into Yiddish.
My reason is very simple: The term 'Klots', is equally found in Arabic, a cousin of
Hebrew!
Take a look and see for yourself:
I am also including a variety of terms which
were offered in relation to this topic
These are the following:
plate # 1 khlT = stupidity, foolishness: paucity of sense. An arrow
made from a piece of cooked wood, which remains crooked, even though one tries
to straighten it; in like manner describing a hopelessly clumsy
person.
plate # 2 ghlZ = gross and/or churlish
plate # 3 glT = a clot, coagulation.
plate # 4 gldh = a clod, hardened clay
plate # 5 ghlth = gluten
plate
# 6 khlq =
clay
plate = 7 glf = clay
plate # 8
kls = chalk, clay, lime and or calcination process in
Alchemy
I hope these terms shed some light upon your topic and
complement the many suggested explanations which have been offered on
this topic .
BTW, in my opinion, these terms are seldom related to
each other.
PARALLEL WORLD?
Finally, the only remaining remark worthy of
mentioning on this subject is the unusual respective
similarities of I.E. terms with those found in Classical Arabic which, as
you all know, is from an unrelated family language.
Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to you all.
Ishinan