Re: request to Celtic specialists

From: t0lgsoo1
Message: 68159
Date: 2011-11-01

>(3) a borrowing from Turkic. This was repeated many times online but
>no one ever gave a source.

Most online dictionaries say knish "probable" of Turkic origin,
but they don't show us that variant of the word.

In modern Turkish, kenish (keniş) seems to be some tool
(for boring?) used by a carpenter; and kinish (kiniş) means
"slot; groove".

So, that assumed substrate Eastern Iranian must have been
different.

Perhaps Ossetian-English, Tajik-English, and Farsi-English
dictionaries might help. (In Iranian, kinesh seems to mean
"advice".)

***

The "dumpling" connection seems to include these Germanic &
German occurrences:

kned-, knud- >

-> kneten "to knead"; die Knete (Knetmasse)
-> Knoten "knot"
-> knuddeln "to hug, cuddle"

knuddelig "cuddlesome, cuddly"; Knuddeligkeit
Knuddel = Knubbel = Knoten = Verdickung = Geschwulst (Tumor)

(Depending on the context, Knuddel also mean Knorren =
Kna(u)s/Knus = Kneis/Gneis and Knast (this one not in the
sense of its homophone Knast which is a different word,
initially from Jewish slang, and means "jail").)

-> Knödel [ˈknøːdl̩], Knedl [ˈkneːdl̩], (yid.) Knejdl
[ˈkneydl̩] = knidli (Книдлі)

Knödel also means: ___Kloss, Klops, Klumpen, Batzen___, Klunker

("zu Klumpen ge_ball_t"; so these fit semantically, depending on
context: Ball, Ballen, Bolle, Balg, Polster < PIE *bhel-, *bhol-.
I.e. a "ball, lump").

Thus, seemingly there is a relation: Germanic _knVd-_ or _knVt-_ versus Eastern _knV_ + -VÅ¡_.

***

The primary meaning of your surname might be knish (food).

But what if you have a German ancestor Kni(e)sch(ke) from
those Germanized Slavic populations in the Eastern areas of the
German "Reich" (e.g. Lusatia, Silezia, Pommerania etc.)?

You see how many German-speaking people there are with Kn*sh-
names (Knisch(-), Knesch(-), and, according to German onomastics linguists, all these names are Slavic (along with myriads of
other barely Germanized names, such as Wessel, Stahnke,
Marschner (< Marislav), Borsche/Porsche (< Borislav, where
Boris is Turkic/Iranic bars "leopard") etc).

OTOH, if an assumed German name is based on the Germanic knu:s,
then your "kinship" consists of millions of South Germans
(belonging chiefly to the Alemanian, Suebian and Bavarian
German groups, i.e. ... real Bastarnians. :))

***

(As for the "dog + whelp, puppy, cub" speculation: the Rumanian
word family of _câne_ (also spelled câine [кыйне], this alterna-
tive pronunciation containing a diphtong) can also fit. There is
an adjective câ(i)neş [кыйнеш] which happens to be also a
surname; a very rare one, but mentioned by Google (there is some
Alexandru I. Câine$ living in Bucharest). So, a Rumanian Moldavian
or a Hutzul (хуцул, Ð"уцул) called Câ(i)ne$ (perhaps initially
a nickname) might have adapted such a name to Knysh upon
Ukrainization.)

George