From: Tavi
Message: 68062
Date: 2011-09-21
>From an extinct one, possibly Italoid (aka Sorotaptic), where *bh > f like in Italic.
> The phonetic shape agrees well with <lapur'> 'thief'.
>
> > But this is clearly an IE loanword (PIE *la(m)bh- 'to seize'), not a
> > native one.
>
> From which IE language?
>
> With what IE suffix? How did Basque get the strong vibrant /R/ out of it?The suffix is clearly un-IE. You can have IE words with un-IE suffixes and viceversa (e.g. Hispanic Latin cuni-culum 'rabbit').
>
> No other examples have been given showing how *gjak- can yield dzaG- in Georgian, so this connection must be regarded as highly speculative. For that matter, no argument favoring direct substratal relation over borrowing has been presented for this word.Douglas, do you know what does "macro-comparative framework" mean? This is clearly an example of a very old (probably Neolithic) Wanderwort which spread as far as Dravidian.
>
> Alessio's rejection of the relation between the Basque and Sardo-Corsican words is groundless. Even if you (Tavi) dismiss the traditional connection between <zori> and <txori> as a vast bird-wing conspiracy among Vascologists, we have <txerri> (Guip., Bisc.), originally a hypocoristic 'piggy', from <zerri> 'swine, pig'. Thus <txakur'>, although primary, could easily be interpreted as a hypocoristic 'doggy', leading to <zakur'> 'dog' as a back-formation. The usual development of initial gj- is dz^-, which present-day Basque does not allow, but its devoiced form ts^- is written <tx->, so there is simply no phonetic objection to <txakur'> reflecting *gjak-.Sorry, but I'm afraid you missed entirely my point about the form kakur and my alternative etymology for this word. As I said before, IMHO, the Basque cognate of this word (actually a remote one) is azeri, azegari (B) 'fox' < Paleo-Basque *a-segali.
>
> Alessio's attempt to connect <zakur'> with <segu:sius> is equally groundless. C.C. Uhlenbeck found seven examples of Basque words showing dialectal alternation of s- with z-, but <zakur'> is not included. I agree that <segu:sius> is probably Ligurian in origin,Not Ligurian, but Cantabrian (a Celtic or para-Celtic language), as a compound *sagu:sio- from *sag- 'to seek' and *(d)u:sio- 'animal'.
>
> Usually Northern Basque /h/ between like vowels represents earlier /n/Not always. Many -h- come from an earlier geminate voiceless velar *-kk- as a consequency of what I call Martinet's Law, e.g. behi 'cow' < *bekki < *bekko- (cfr. Italian becco 'male goat'). By contrast, Iberian (where Martinet's Law didn't happen) has biki (as most Iberian texts don't differentiate between fortis/lenis stops due to the limitations of the script, this could either represent kk or k).
>