From: Rick McCallister
Message: 67933
Date: 2011-07-26
--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Tavi" <oalexandre@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Alternatively, we could follow Kuhn and propose the existence of
> > > not one but two substrate layers for Germanic in the NWBlock
> > > area:
> > >
> > > 1 a non-IE language, called the ar-/ur-language by Kuhn
> > >
> > > 2 an IE language, spoken but for a short time before Germanic
> > > took over
> > >
> > > and assign the Germanic-like NWBlock roots to the latter, eg
> > > Meid's German flur, English floor, NWB placename Plore, OI lar
> > > "field"
> > >
> > Matasović reconstructs Proto-Celtic *fla:ro- 'floor', and he
> > quotes Old Irish lár 'ground, surface, middle', although the
> > semantic shift to 'field' is straightforward (cfr. Basque larre
> > 'meadow', probably a Celtic loanword).
>
> Why would Celtic *(f)la:rom, if borrowed into Basque, be reflected
> as <larre> rather than *laro?
>
Trask:
The History of Basque
p. 144
'3.7 RHOTICS
In all likelihood, Pre-Basque R and r were a trill and a tap, respectively, and they probably contrasted only between vowels. Elsewhere the contrast was neutralized (though old Z[uberoan] exhibited a contrast between the two rhotics before another consonant). In modern varieties, the result of the neutralization is usually a trill, at least in careful speech, even in Romance loans like brontze 'bronze' and krabelin 'carnation', but there is evidence, as we shall see, that this may not always have been so.'
p. 169
'3.15 TREATMENT OF LOAN WORDS FROM LATIN AND EARLY ROMANCE
Latin nouns are usually borrowed in their accusative forms:
ahate 'duck' < anate,
ohore 'honour' < honore,
bake 'peace' < pace,
ingude 'anvil' < incude,
errege 'king' < rege,
lore 'flower' < flore.
But there are a few instances of borrowed nominatives:
gorputz 'body' < corpus,
lapitz 'slate' < lapis 'stone',
maizter 'master shepherd' < magister,
apaez (and variants) 'priest' < abbas 'abbot'.
Adjectives are borrowed in the accusative singular masculine/neuter:
ziku 'dry' < siccu,
xahu 'clean' < sanu 'healthy'.
A rare nominative is
bortitz 'strong, violent' < fortis.'
No particular mention of the treatment of Latin -r- or -rr-.
Löpelmann
Etymologisches Wörterbuch der baskischen Sprache
'larre Heide, Steppe, Weide, Trift, Äsungsplatz, Gemeindewiese, Wüste, Heidekraut;
Präf. larre- wild, nicht gezähmt, unkultiviert (Tiere, Pflanzen);
Adj. bäurisch, flegelig, unmassgeblich (Mensch):
-aitsurr, -haitsurr, -haintsurr Hacke, Karst;
-haintsur-go/ -ko Behackung, Bodenlockerung;
-haintsurtu mit der Hacke urbar machen;
-aldi Viehweide, Trift;
-aroÅŸa Muskatrose;
-atu, -katu auf die Weide treiben, auf dem Brachland weiden lassen, weiden;
-katse Weiden, Weidenlassen;
-behi wilde Kuh;
-behorr frei weidende Stute, die nicht arbeiten muss;
-di weite Wiesenfläche;
-gia Heide, Heidewiese, Anger;
-gison Senner, Gebirgler, Wilder,Feldhüter;
-joan verwildern (Land);
-ki Steppe, mit Heidekraut bewachsenes Gelände, Weide, Anger;
-lili Lilie, wilde Blume;
-martsuka wilde Maulbeere;
-oilarr Birkhahn;
-oilo Birkhenne, Haselhuhn;
-olo Trespe, wilder Hafer;
-othe Heuschrecke, Feldgrille (vgl. larhote), Ginster (Nbf. llar-othe);
-pitiiti Zaunkönig;
-pothe Grille, Heuschrecke;
-ratu auf die Weide gehn, in die Heide ziehen, auf die Weide führen;
-şari Weidegeld für Benutzung fremden Geländes;
-ÅŸu Heidefeuer, Irrlicht;
-ta weites, gewöhnl. eingehegtes Weide- od. Wiesengelände;
-[e]tšeki Feuersbrunst in den Bergen od. in einem Dorf;
-šori, -tšori Heidelerche;
-utsi brach liegen lassen;
-sorri Schaf-, Rinderzecke.
Nbf. larra-.
§ vmtl. fz.;
aus afz. larris (mlat. larricium) leeres, unangebautes Feld,
wohl aus
ndl. laar leer, bezw. laer unangebautes Feld
(mndl. laar Waldlichtung).'
This raises many questions.
It seems Basque -r- and -rr- correspond to the the similar situation in Spanish. But Old French supposed had only one rhotic. Perhaps Löplmann's connection with Dutch laar (loan from Celtic?) is fanciful.
Torsten