On the old amber road? (Was Re: [tied] Re: Who were the Igylliones?)

From: george knysh
Message: 67707
Date: 2011-06-07



From: Torsten <tgpedersen@...>
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2011 3:22 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Who were the Igylliones?

 

Adding a name...


>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrones
> of
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fehmarn
(*wÄ™-r- -> *vem-r -> *fe:m-r)
 
****GK: I'm wondering if another one of Ptolemy's sequences might not also represent a geographical displacement. I'm thinking of the list of peoples which appears in III,5 AFTER he has described the "lesser races" along the Vistula (starting with the Goths) up to the "Avarini" at the "source" of that river. He continues with: Ombrones, Anartophracti, Burgiones, Arsietai, Saboci, Piengitae, and Biessi "near the Carpathian mountains". Seems like quite a lot for a small space...
What if this list represented populations along the "old" amber road, viz., between ca 50 BCE and the mid-first c. CE? We note that Ptolemy has no "peoples" in his Danubian Yazigia other than the Yazigi. And we know from Pliny that the nomads chased out the Dacians into the mountains when they conquered this area. Caesar (DBG 6, 25) notes that the Hercynian forest stretched as far as the boundaries of the Anartes and Dacians. And we know that Burebista squashed Critasirus by invading across the Tysa (Theiss). Was their struggle (in part) a conflict about controlling the amber road? Nero made Carnuntum into the main "amber" port. Nauportus of the Taurisci was a likely predecessor. So: the list would represent the situation after the Burebista takeover, and before the Iazygian invasion? One may speculate that "Ombrones" are those Ambrones who stayed behind in 113 BCE and joined the Tauriscae. The "Anartophracti" could be a garbled "Anartes Taurisci" (or something similar). Note that both "Anarti" and "Teurisci" reappear in Ptolemy as settled in the northern part of his "wide" Dacia... Critasirus' people. The "Burgiones" seem a garbled "Burguntae"/"Phrungundiones"/Burgundians (either misplaced or an unrecorded part of the Cimbrian saga or a relocated portion of Przeworkers -Ptolemy also has them on both banks of the Lower Vistula). The rest of the names would be Dacians.
And another thing: maybe these names appear as  they do in Ptolemy because the Iazigian invasion pushed out some of them north and eastward while the rest remained in Iazigia as "slaves".  Apparently a few were still around (and participated) in the Marcommanic wars of Marcus Aurelius (the Saboki and Biessi). Anyway, worth a  thought.*****