Re: More on Bastarnian archaeology

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@> wrote:

> > >
> > > > Note the Hachmann quote here:
> > > > http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/66893
> > >
> > > > The strange Jungian synchronicity between Middle German and
> > > > Poieneshti forms stretching into time period B and dying then
> > > > in Poieneshti seems to be better explained by a wholesale
> > > > transfer of the Bastarnae to Central Germany.
> > >
> > > GK: The problem with this hypothesis is that the Poieneshti
> > > culture only evolved in Moldavia (more precisely in the Getan
> > > sections conquered by the Yastorfers). The

originating Middle

> > > German culture of the incoming Yastorfers (incl. their fibulae)
> > > was not Poieneshti since that did not yet exist. It doesn't seem
> > > reasonable to assume that this "wholesale transfer of the
> > > Bastarnae to Central Germany" would have been preceded by a
> > > total loss of all the "local" cultural elements they had
> > > developed in Moldavia. And Hachmann doesn't see any such in
> > > Middle Germany esp. in ceramics.

He doesn't see it, and especially doesn't see it in ceramics? Explain.
 

*****GK: Hachmann doesn't see any Poeneshti-Lukashevka "local" traits in  Middle Germany. Judging by the quote you gave he relies only on fibulae for his analysis. In any case this is secondary, since we're not really dealing with Hachmann but with your interpretation of some passages from Hachmann. And in that context what I found more than strained is the view that "returning Bastarnae" would somehow have eliminated all non-original Jastorf (and directly developed therefrom) ceramics from their inventory. P/L ceramic forms were inextricably mixed by 70 BCE. There was no way to "disentangle" them. And of course, as we now know, they weren't disentangled in Bukovyna/Galicia, the main new abode of the Bastarnians pushed out by Burebista. So your interpretation seems to imply that the new Bastarnian "ruling class" arrived with little more than the clothes on their backs (if that (:=)), and adopted the local culture wholesale (+innovations with no roots in where they came from or where they arrived). That is why I argued that such an improbable scenario is arguable with practically any outside group, not merely refugees from Bastarnia.*****