Re: More on Bastarnian archaeology

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> The Atmoni have been identified with the Omani, Ptolemy writes of them and the Sithones:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silingi
> 'Back below the Semnones the Silingae have their seat, and below the Burguntae the Lugi Omani, below whom the Lugi Diduni up to Mt. Asciburgius; and below the Silingae the Calucones and the Camavi up to Mt. Melibocus, from whom to the east near the Albis river and above them, below Mt. Asciburgius, the Corconti and the Lugi Buri up to the head of the Vistula river; and below them first the Sidones, then the Cotini, then the Visburgii above the Orcynius valley.'
> ie. the Sidones are here north of the Cotini in Slovakia, which would be Galicia.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemy 90 - 168 CE.

****GK: BTW the part of Galicia occupied by late Poeneshti was that easternmost section of Ternopil region bordering on Bukovyna, near the confluence of Zbrucz and Dnister, a very long distance away from Slovakia. But pretty close to where Ptolemy places his Bastarnians (i.e. close to the Carpiani and Roxolani, and north of the Tyragetae cf. III.5 of his Geography). The mention of the Sidones north of Slovakia is interesting, though the Lugian Omani don't sound like Bastarnians. Too bad one can't always decide for what time frame these locations apply. For instance, in that same III.5 Ptolemy mantions another group north of the Tyragetae, viz. "below the Basternae near Dacia are the Tigri and below these are the Tyrangitae". On the "Tigri" see (perhaps)Strabo 7.2.2: they were a Celtic tribe associated with the "Cimbri". Part nof the "mixed" early Bastarnae? Who really knows?

Another interesting archaeological point is that Late Poeneshti occupied its Bukovyna/Galicia territory at about the same time that Przeworsk began to push eastward from the Cracow area into Galicia, viz. the mid-1rst c. BCE, and "disappeared" at about the same time that Przeworsk reached the confluence of Zbrucz and Dnister. But there is no "local" evidence of mutual assimilation. One of the possibilities I had mentioned earlier is that Poeneshti might have later fused with the Zarubinians (the cultures have frequently been noted as very close), but the evidence for this is too meager (or rather, there is none). We know for instance that when the Zarubinians of Polissia moved southward into Galicia and mixed with the Przeworkers (in the mid- 1rst c. CE) they eventually created a common culture (before being absorbed into Gothic Chernyakhiv). However in this case one can (archaeologists can) trace components of this common culture going back to either Przeworsk or Zarubinia. One can't do this for Poeneshti, either in Galicia or in Poland or Germany. Only in Moldavia and Bukovyna, where the Getan and Yastorf/Pomorian contributions are clear.****