Re: Tudrus

From: t0lgsoo1
Message: 67053
Date: 2011-01-08

>'A Antn ohne an gscheiden Oasch is ka Antn!' (Found on the
>web.)

This is Austrian Bavarian. Typical "markers": [oa] in Oa(r)sch
(in Bavaria's most areas, this word isn't pronounced with the
Austrian diphtong). And ka (which is esp. typical of eastern,
Vienna, Austrian. The typical equivalent of it in Bavaria's
Bavarian is koa. (As sort of a pattern: German <ei> [ej] > Bav.
<oa> [oa] > Austrian Bav. aa [a:] (e.g. zwei > zwoa > zwaa).
But this "rule" isn't always applied -- which is illustrated
by the sentence above, "A Antn ohne...": gscheit, and no
*gschaat! Also Schwein stays Schwein (a bit tending to
Schwäään in Vienna), but AFAIK never *Schwoa or *Schwaa).
(The use of the letters for the consonants PTKBDG+SZ+Z$ in written
rendering attempts for German dialects is quite chaotic, so
it doesn't matter that some would write "gscheid" and others
"gscheit"; especially in the "Auslaut" PTKBDG+SZ+Z$ are always
uttered PTKS$, which is esp. discernible whenever Germans
speak English. A feature shared by some Turkic languages
(cf. Ahmad > Ahmet, Mahmud > Mehmet, Murad > Murat, Darband
> Derbent).

>But I gather that some dialects have <Antn> only in the plural

Obacht: in southern dialects, esp. Bav., the feminine -(e)n
ending is not perceived as a real plural, but a singular.
Hence "die Wiese" of the Oktoberfest in Munich is "de Wies'n"
(and the Suebian "die Wasen" in Stuttgart). This means it is
the same *one* "Wiese", not several "Wiesen". The same applies
(in these dialects) to virtually all feminine nouns ("Mogst du
a Watsch'n? a Supp'n?" = "Magst du eine Watsche? eine Suppe?" =
"Do you wanna get slapped in the face? eat some soup?").

Hence the singular Ant(e)n looks like it were a plural. This
is typical of the Bavarian dialect and shared by some next
neighbors (from the Suebian-Alemannian & Franconian dialect
families), which, of course, sounds weird in the ears of
standard German speakers as well as to natives speaking
various northern dialects.

>but the declension has still been changed from the MHG.

Coz... who the heck likes grammar? :-)

See:

-- "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod".
(Bastian Sick)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastian_Sick)

-- "Wir Deutschen haben die Welt beherrscht, fremde Völker,
die Nordsee und die Natur — den Konjunktiv nie."
(Dieter Hildebrandt)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Hildebrandt)

George