Off Topic: window, hobo (was: Re: Re: Lislakh

[Not really a proper topic for this list, but since it has come up, here's a response:]

Brian M. Scott, On 04/12/2010 06:19:

> johnvertical@... <mailto:johnvertical%40hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In English, for example, you normally only find final
> > unstress'd syllables ending in consonants or -i ("lucky",
> > "doggie"), or -o ("hobo", "window"). However, that doesn't
> > stop words like "lava", "voodoo", "cafe" existing, and
> > having existed for centuries.
>
> <Hobo>, <window>, <voodoo>, and <cafe> do not end in
> unstressed syllables. In the first three the final syllable
> has secondary stress; in the last it has primary stress for
> me and many others and secondary stress for some. <Lava>
> does end in an unstressed syllable, but final unstressed /ǝ/
> is perfectly acceptable. Indeed, when the final syllable of
> <window> loses secondary stress, as it does for some
> speakers at least in informal speech, it's generally reduced
> to /-dǝ/.

There are decent arguments for saying that the second syll in _window_, but not _hobo_, is weak/unstressed, to be analysed as /ǝw/. One argument is that prevocalically the syllabic /ǝ/ can elide, leaving [w], as can generally happen with stem-final /ǝC/: e.g. _following_ can be disyllabic, [fQlwIN]. A further argument is that the generalization can then be maintained that the 'nativest' polysyllabic morphemes can't end in a stressed syllable (i.e. the (IMO, true) generalization that John Vertical was seeking to capture). And a still further argument is that, as you mention, in some dialects, /ǝw/ (but not the GOAT vowel found in the last syll of _hobo_) is, or alternates with, /ǝ(r)/, which could be characterized as /w/-dropping.

Analogous to the contrast in the final syllables of _hobo_:_window_ is that in _Carrhae_:_carry_, the former ending in the FLEECE vowel and the latter in the so-called happY vowel, which I would suggest is /ǝj/ (= /ǝy/). _Carrhae and_ is three syllables, but _carry and_ may through elision be two, [kaRjǝn]. In some accents, happY is always realized differently from FLEECE, e.g. as [I] or [E], while in some others, they have the same [i]-like realization in most environments but happY is [I] before a suffix (e.g. _Carrhae's_ [-iz], _carries, Carrie's_ [-Iz]).

Excuse the digression, but I thought it worth piping up to argue that John V was essentially correct on the point on which he had ostensibly been corrected.

Returning to lurk mode now...

--And.