Re: Jordanes

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@...> wrote:

>
> Am 07.11.2010 22:40, schrieb Torsten:
> >
> >
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cybalist%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > Alexandru Moeller <alxmoeller@> wrote:
>
> > >
> > > how his ethnic background was getic when his
> > > descendende/liniage on his father side is Gothic?
> >
> > He doesn't say so.
>
> well, teh text, you provided means:
>
> Jordanes, on his own background
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanes#Life
> 'The Sciri, moreover, and the Sadagarii and certain of the Alani
> with their leader, Candac by name, received Scythia Minor and Lower
> Moesia. Paria, the father of my father Alanoviiamuth (that is to
> say, my grandfather), was secretary to this Candac as long as he
> lived. To his sister's son Gunthigis, also called Baza, the Master
> of the Soldiery, who was the son of Andag the son of Andela, who was
> descended from the stock of the Amali, I also, Jordanes, although an
> unlearned man before my conversion, was secretary.'

No, the text says that his grandfather Paria was secretary to the king of the Sciri, Candac, and that he himself was secretary to Baza, son of Andag, son of Andela, who was an Amal (thus Goth) and Candac's sister. It says nothing about his own ethnicity. In fact since he is a secretary, he was most likely a slave or freedman and therefore of another ethnicity than his Gothic employer.

> I am not aware about Paria and Baza as beeing Thracian names. The
> other names which are mentioned here do not appears to be Dacian or
> Thracian either(Candac, Alanoviiamuth, Andag, Andela, Amali,
> Gunthigis), probalby they are Sarmatic (Alans, Roxolans)

Detschew has both Paris and
'πάρος m. PN. -
IG 9, 2, 287 α aus Gomphi, Thessalien,
10: πάρος Μουσαίου (Freigelassener).
IGRP 1, 98 aus Rom: παρος σαβαζίω, δω~ρον.
Bechtel PN 551 identifiziert den PN mit dem Inselnamen πάρος.
Wegen -parus in Zi-parus halte ich ihn dagegen für Parallelform von πάρις.'

as Thracian names. And no one claimed Baza was a Thracian name. As for the other names, Gunthigis looks Germanic, the rest don't, but Gothic names often don't look Germanic.

> > > As for the name Jordanes, maybe he took a christian name which
> > > was appropiate to the Dacian *Durdanus,
> >
> > Diurdanus (ie. Djurdanus)
> >
> > > this appears to be workable hypothesis but why should have a
> > > Goth a Dacian name ?
> >
> > Who says he's a Goth?
> >
> > > P.S.
> > > -it can be that even the well known "Dardanus" is too a reflex
> > > of Durdanes
> >
> > Diurdanus
>
> The form Diur- shold be an younger one, the initial form has been
> "dur-" as in Durazis, Durpaneus, etc.

I don't believe that. Dur- -> Diur- doesn't make sense as a phonetic deveopment.

> The change "du>diu>3u" does not shows any phonetic troubles if the
> "J" was pronounced as a consontant like in Joe.

Yes it does, du > dju doesn't make sense.

> >
> > > and shouldn't be treated separately off this group of names.
> > >
> >
> > Detschew divides that name as *dard- plus end�ng and lists forms
> > with other endings.
> >
>
> I am not allways happy with the way Detschew divides some words when
> sustaining some ideas in the "Charakteristik der thrakischen
> Sprache).
> Yet, missing his book where he send someone to read about, I am
> missing the basis of understanding his reasons to divide the words
> as such.

He says he wants the Dardani to be connected with
'δαρζαλας, δερζελας, bzw. δερζαλατης GN;
δαρζαλεια Festspiele zur Ehre des Gottes Derzelas.'



Torsten