Re: Grammatical Gender

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, johnvertical@... wrote:

>
> > I will still claim that the suffix is individuating not
> > collectivizing: it produces something unitary (note old 3sg verbs
> > for NPlNom -a:) out of something plural. It became feminine not
> > actively, but by being gradually excluded from the Masc. gender
> > because of its other sense as diminutive (which can't be used for
> > important men: no 'prezzie' for President or 'primie' for Prime
> > Minister). For some reason it is similar in its use to a Semitic
> > *-at- suffix (IIRC), but I think the original source in
> > non-Anatolic IE is Finno-Permic or whatever lay under that: the
> > suffix occurs also in FP tree names
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/64751
>
> More correctly, "a suffix with no particular resemblance occurs in
> Baltic Finnic in tree names, some of whose roots are of Uralic
> heritage".

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

>
> > (the -v-, -j-, -k- are regular reflexes of *-ŋ- in Finno-Ugric).
>
> Not quite, PFU itself still had *ŋ, and there is no soundlaw -ŋ- >
> -k- in any of its descendants.

But there might be a connection -x <-> -k in PIE (Miguel) or a substrate of it (me).

> Mordvinic *s´eleŋ is form'd with a separate diminutiv -ŋ (not
> restricted to tree names; even productiv IIRC).

*ŋ -> *v exists in Baltic Finnic.

>
> > The willow name, probably taken from the same language which gave
> us the *-aŋ- suffix, would be *saŋ-al-aŋ-, from *saŋ- "wet hole (to
> the other side)", the adjectivizing suffix *-al- and the
> individuating *-aŋ- suffix (our topic).
> >
> > Torsten
>
> The FU evidence does not allow for an intervening syllable a la
> _saCVl_,

I never claimed it did.

> nor an original meaning of _willow_ (all but BF have "elm"),

Which have similar uses (Paasonen)

> nor a non-palatal *s-.

Make it *śaŋ-al-aŋ- then.

> Just for the record, for the benefit of rest of the list.
>
> John Vertical
>

You're welcome. As you can see, I'm busy here too.


Torsten