Re: Another tamga mark?

From: george knysh
Message: 66366
Date: 2010-07-25

--- On Sat, 7/24/10, Torsten <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

Obviously the word [darraþ-/daruþ GK]must have been taken over after the Grimm-shift. That took place during the expansion of the Suevi under Ariovistus and followers.

****GK: Some time ago Piotr had said that he would comment on this particular time frame as a possibility for the Grimm-shift. I'm not sure your position is anything more solid than a simple postulated assertion.****

I assume therefore that the word was introduced with the object itself by that elite which came to power in Przeworsk just before that.

****GK: I still don't see (1)how one can connect Ariovistus with the Przeworsk culture people as his peculiar people and (2)what was the nature and identity of this new elite (the discussion about "inhumations" seems to have petered out...).

as to (1). I would argue that Ariovistus was a Suebian (as that term was understood in Caesar's time, i.e. before it acquired an expanded significance in Strabo and even more in Tacitus). We don't know its early unit references, though possibly/probably the Semnones were already "in" (not yet the Hermunduri: cf. Pliny NH IV.100, or the Marcomanni).When Suebian pressure was at its height, in the immediate generations after Caesar, the best geographer of the times (Strabo) did not identify the area of Przeworsk with them but rather with the Lugii (cf. G. 7.1.3: the Lugii are not yet "Suebians" in Strabo as they are in Tacitus). We do have archaeological evidence that Przeworsk people participated in the Suebian pressure (though it's unclear whether this already began with Ariovistus: if it did, then the Marcomanni might be candidates for "Przeworsk migrants", as they were on the Main (where Przeworsk items were identified for the second half of the 1rst c
BCE) before Maroboduus took them to Bohemia).

The elite would have been the first to Grimm-shift.

*****GK: Why would a secondary group accompanying the Suebians do that, if that is indeed the right time frame anyway (waiting for Piotr)?*****

The question now is: why from Greek?

****GK: Might this itself suggest an earlier time frame?*****