Re: Morimarusa

From: gknysh
Message: 65637
Date: 2010-01-14

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>
>
> Germanic expansion from Przeworsk (Suevi)
> >
> > GK: This has been Torsten's mantra for years. Pity that he
> > hasn't adduced one shred of convincing evidence in its favour.
> > Germanic expansion eventually englobed the area of the Przeworsk
> > culture ,largely created by incoming Germanics from the West and
> > Northwest. And these "Przeworskers" did participate in the Suevan
> > expansion to the West under Ariovistus and his successors. But the
> > view that Przeworsk was the "locus a quo" is unproved fantasy.
>
> From a linguistics point of view,

****GK: (1)Insufficient per se. (2) Let's have some quotes from reputable linguists.
****

it's the best candidate. S Germany was archeologically Celtic before Ariovistus,

****GK: Archaeologically, Celtic culture had largely if not completely disappeared from S. Germany long before Ariovistus. Not Celtic presence however, if we are to believe Caesar's comment about the Volcae in DBG 6:24 (which also would imply that Germanics and Celts shared a common culture in S. Germany as late as 53 BCE).

NW Germany and Holland spoke NWBlock.

****GK: This is problematic. The date of NWBlock speech replacement by Germanic is far from clear.****

Jastorf did not expand into S Germany.

****GK: Elbe Germanic (into which Jastorf had morphed) certainly did.***

As for the ancestry of the Przeworsk language, the language of Jastorf is one candidate,

****GK: we know of no other. There were also Celts and Venedi in the area who contributed to the rise of the culture (particularly the Celts) but their language wasn't Germanic.*****

but it is worrying that we can't identify any para-Germanic toponyms within its area.

****GK: Which area? Jastorf? Przeworsk?
BTW, Jastorf contributed to the rise of other Germanic-speaking areas: Oksywie and Poeneshti-Lukashovka, and was also a noticeable though not linguistically dominant presence in Zarubinia.

Finally: there is no plausible explanation as to how Germanic would have spread from a Przeworsk heartland to Scandinavia, or to neighbouring "Oksywia" or further southeast (Bastarnia).*****
>
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> Torsten
>