Re: hound

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "Torsten" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

>
> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "dgkilday57" <dgkilday57@> wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > F. Weigand & F. Schmitthenner, Dt. Wb. I:712 (1873):
> >
> > hunzen = die Ehre abschneidend, spottend, scheltend behandeln ...
> > Erst im 16. Jh., in welchem huntzen = durch Abschneiden kuerzen
> > ["zuhuntzte ... Kleidung" (Mathesius, Sarepta Bl. 69{a}) = zu sehr
> > gekuerzte], einscheinend kuerzen. Mit regelrechter Verschiebung
> > des t zu z entlehnt aus boehm. huntovati, humtovati = verhunzen,
> > aber huntowati eig. = schlachten.
> >
> > A. de Cihac, Dict. d'etym. daco-romane I:134 (1879):
> >
> > Ha^nt>uesc, i, vb., de'pe'cer, dilace'rer, de'membrer, de'chirer;
> > -hant>, s., hant> de morta^ciune 'charogne'; cfr. c^ech. huntovati
> > 'faire le me'tier de boucher', hunt 'grand morceau'; l'all. hunzen,
> > aushunzen 'gourmander' est de la me^me source c^ech.
> >
> > J.F. S^umavske'ho, C^esko-Nemecky slovnik 164 (1851):
> >
> > Hunt, u 'Stuerzkarren; Knollen, groszes Stuekk; Klotz zu Schindeln;
> > groszes Holzscheit'; --e'r^ 'Landfleischhauer, Steckviehhaendler;
> > Verderber, Sudler'; ... --e'r^uju 'Landfleischhauer sein'.
> >
> > Kluge seems to have been unaware of "zuhuntzte Kleidung"; this
> > 16th-c. sense of <huntzen> can hardly come from 'Hund nennen'.
> > However a loan from the Czech form <huntovati> should not have lost
> > the second syllable; we have 15th-c. Ger. <hauf(e)nitz> 'howitzer'
> > from Boh. <houfnice> 'stone-sling, catapult'. More likely Boh.
> > <hunte'r^> was borrowed into early NHG as *Huntzer 'meat-cutter,
> > butcher' and the verb <huntzen> was back-formed, literally 'to cut
> > meat, butcher, hack to pieces, cut short' etc., figuratively 'to
> > cut down to size, belittle, die Ehre abschneiden, spotten,
> > schelten, schimpfen'.
>
> The -ova-, -uje- suffix creates verbs from nouns in Slavic languages. It is very common, bilinguals might have discarded it in translation.

The loan could have gone in either direction, then. O. Wiese, ZfdWf 3:243 (1903) gives a reasonably good argument for deriving <verhunzen> from *verhumpezen, and Franck, Ned. Etym. Woordb. 378 relates the simplex <hunzen> to Dutch <homp> 'afgesneden stuk'. From what little I have found out, Mathesius was from the border area and the Sarepta has many examples of Bergmannssprache; possibly Czech <hunt> was extracted from <huntzen>, itself from *humpezen, and passed on to Romanian in the sense 'piece of meat'.

> > I do not know the source of this Czech <hunt> 'piece, lump', etc.
>
> Somehow the whole thing looks hunt-related, the last quotes having to do with dissecting the quarry, cf 'Unmaking' in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_hunting

A possible connection, yes.

> Vasmer has only
> 'gúnja 'zerlumptes Kleidungsstück',
> gúnka 'Kinderwindel',
> ukr. hún´a 'grober Tuchrock',
> bulg. gún´a 'Mantel von Ziegenhaar',
> skr. gûnj 'Art Oberkleid',
> sloven. gúnj,
> c^ech. houne^ 'haariger Stoff, Kotze',
> slk. hun^a,
> poln. gunia, dass.
> || Entlehnt aus airan. gaunya:- f. 'die farbige'
> ...'
> I can't say whether this might be related.

Probably not, but I am no Slavist.

> BTW, in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting
> I found this
> 'The word for hunting in Ancient Greek, kynègia, is derived from kynos 'dog'.'

Literally 'dog-driving' or 'driving with dogs' which fits reasonably well with what I proposed for Gmc. *hunDa-.

DGK