Re: Quadi

From: Torsten
Message: 65197
Date: 2009-10-07

> > I'd like to ask if there is an accepted or even halfway decent
> > etymology for the Germanic tribe of the Quadi? What would this
> > word sound like without the Latin transliteration?
>
> --- In cybalist@..., Piotr Gasiorowski <piotr.gasiorowski@...>
> wrote:
> > Offhand, I can only propose *kwa:d < PGmc.(?) *kwe:da- 'wicked,
> > bad, hostile' (e.g. ME quead, Du. kwaad), whose attestation in
> > Germanic is unfortunately limited to English, Frisian, Dutch and
> > Low German. Perhaps there's some kind of relation to Pokorny's
> > *gWedH- 'destroy' (he cites Ger. quetschen) and/or Slavic *gadU
> > 'reptile, something repulsive'.

> The attestation in Germanic coresponds nicely to the geographical
> distribution of the family name Quaade/Quadt (and other spellings)
>
> http://home.worldonline.nl/~wr2777/Quade-Kwaad.htm
>
> Researching the -lev toponyms, I found a Kvalöv(?, by memory) in
> Scania in South Sweden, the first root explained as "bog, marsh".
>
> Falk & Torp:
> <kvade> or <kvae>
> resin-like fluid excreted by trees, esp. conifers.
>
> <kvadder> slush, mud
> probably borrowed from Low German <quader>, <quadder> "filthy
> fluid, slime>, same word as Middle Low German <koder> "slime" ...
> Unrelated to OHG quât, kôt (German Kot) MLG <quât (-d-)> "filth",
> related to MLG <quât> (Dutch <kwaad>) "evil, bad" = PIE *gvêtho-,
> related by ablaut to Skr. <gûtha-> "muck".
>
> Thus swamp-dwellers, good geographical name for the neighbors of
> the Marcomanni, the men of the frontier. It seems they moved north.

I'll take them to be related anyway.

It's problematic how to relate Strabo's early designation 'Koldouoi' to Quadi. I'll try.

On *kold-
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/64637

Vasmer:
xolod -a 'Kälte', xolódnyj 'kalt', xóloden, xolodná, xólodno,
ukr. chól/od, chol/ódnyj,
wruss. chólod,
abulg, chladU (Supr.),
bulg. chlad(&´t),
skr. hlâd G. hlâda,
sloven. hlâd,
c^ech. slk. chlad,
poln. chl/ód G. chl/odu,
osorb. khlódk 'Schatten',
nsorb. chlodk. ||

Wohl mit Anlautsvariante kh- als urverw. zu
got. kalds 'kalt',
lat. gelidus (idg. *geldh-); *gheld- in
aind. hlá:date: 'kühlt sich', prahla:das 'Erquickung',
*k^alt-: lit. s^áltas 'kalt',
osset. sald 'Kälte', avest. sar&ta- 'kalt',
s. Zupitza KZ. 37, 390, Berneker EW. 1, 393, Iljinskij IORJ. 20, 4, 139. Andere gehen vom Anlaut ks- aus u. vergleichen *choldU mit lit. s^áltas 'kalt'. Wegen der Wortbildung wird hierbei auf *tvIrdU: lit. tvìrtas (s. tvërdyj) hingewiesen, s. Pedersen KZ. 38,391; 40,179, Mikkola Ursl. Gr. 174 ff., Balt. u. Slav. 44. Gegen diese Kombination spräche die Tatsache, daß lit. s^áltas 'kalt' nicht von lit. s^alnà 'Reif' getrennt werden kann. Dieses aber gehört zu
abulg. slana 'Reif'
und hatte idg. k^, s. Uhlenbeck IF. 17, 95ff., Endzelin SlBEt. 40ff. Daher nimmt Machek Slavia 16, 195 für *choldU expressives ch für s in idg. *k^old- an. Unsicher ist auch Macheks Vergleich mit
aind. jad.as 'kalt, starr' (aus *geldo-, *goldo-). Abzulehnen ist die Annahme einer Entlehnung aus got. kalds 'kalt' (Uhlenbeck Archiv 15, 485, s. S^trekelj bei Peisker 61) oder aus einem fragwürdigen
germ. *haldás, ndl. hal 'gefrorener Boden' (Endzelin SIBEt. 125). Bedenklich auch die Zusammenstellung mit lit. s^áldyti 'frieren machen' (Loewenthal PBrBtr. 49, 416, Brückner KZ. 51, 238).'

cf. Hellquist
http://runeberg.org/svetym/0308.html
http://runeberg.org/svetym/0309.html
'hal fsv., ä. da., med ljudhistoriskt
dunkelt a, motsv. isl. hall, no. haal,
fhty. hâli; väl urspr. 'frusen', jfr holl.
hal n., tjäle, o. litau. szálti, frysa osv.;
härav 'glatt' (jfr ägs. helig, opålitlig).
- En reduplicerad bildning av samma
rot är isl. héla, rimfrost, av germ.
*hihlo:n: sanskr. cicira-, köld, frost. -
Jfr halka.'


It can be fixed, questionably, thus:
Gmc. *kal-d- is unshifted pre-Germanic
Pre-Slav. *xold- (-> WSlav. *xl/od-) is a loan from Grimm-shifted Germanic *xal-d-
Baltic *s^alt- is regularly from PIE *k^olt-
Quadic and NWBlock *kwa:d- is from *kl/ad- <- *kald- (unshifted pre-Germanic with liquid metathesis)

There are many cracks in this construction, but, hey, I tried.


Torsten