Res: [tied] Re: Afro-Asiatic substrate x NW substratum

From: Joao S. Lopes
Message: 64462
Date: 2009-07-29

Even if Northern IE *abl-/ubl-/o:bl- and Latin ma:lum had the same source, their forms are so divergent that would need a different route of diffusion. Italica Abella would match the NIE word, but malum wouldn't, requiring a Southern way (cf. Greek me:lon, ma:lon). Celtic Lugus and Germanic *Lokan would fit in this Northwestern substratal scenario? I think this substratum would require a mythical scheme with a Sun-Goddess and a Moon-God (cf. Slavic, Baltic and Germanic), preceeding the PIE Sun-God.
 
JS Lopes


De: tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>
Para: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Enviadas: Quarta-feira, 29 de Julho de 2009 6:06:46
Assunto: [tied] Re: Afro-Asiatic substrate

 

--- In cybalist@... s.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> > > I believe the non-IE Hellenic element is believed to be either
> > > Pelasgian (possibly an Eteo-Cretan language?) or Anatolian, and
> > > I've only seen Afro-Asiatic, Uralic or Basque proposed as
> > > substrates for Germanic.
> >
> > Add to that
> >
> > 1) Krahe's IE Old European (plenty literature)
> >
> > 2) Kuhn's ar-/ur- language, or non-IE NWB (see file section)
> >
> > 3) Kuhn's IE Nordwestblock language (see archive, plenty)
> >
> > 4) Peter Schrijver's language of geminates (= 2, in my opinion)
> >
> > 5) Peter Schrijver's language of bird names (also = 2?)
> >
> > 6) Venetic (= 3?; archives)
>
> > So where do Apple Language and Folkish fit in?
>
> 'Apple' has an a/u ablaut, so 2)

For some other reason I wrote up the root variants for apple as belonging to the combined language 2) and 4). Some of them were

*abl-/*an,Wl- /*apl-/*ubl- /*un,Wl- etc

But that didn't satisfy Latin malum. It does Gamkrelidze/ Ivanov's *amlu-, though.
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/2095
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/37983
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/2600
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/2599
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/40134

However, if the combined language 2 (ar-/ur-) and language 4 (of the geminates) was also identical to language 5 (of bird names), Latin malum etc would fit in (see Schrijver's article in
http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ cybalist/ message/62677
for definitions) . The same goes for the water word; the
*akW-/*an,W- /*ap-/*up- "water"
root would be identical to the one in
*wo-dor (*n,Wo-dor)
if it belonged to a combined language 2, 4 and 5. Which means henceforth I will consider those substrate languages to be identical.

Torsten




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